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Re: Turkish chasseurs

Hi uwe, Thansk.Mr Normans description is 1855 sketch.
I understand for Crimee not Danube.

I have seen references earlier in various contemporary sources that identify a french officered "Chasseur styled Unit of 2 battalions".I believe from teh contemporary source texts this is indicated more to do with being trained in Light Infanterie role rather than with their uniform.Plus weaponry issued.

mY issue with using S-R CW Early French Legere;Light is teh gaiters are worn OUTSIDE the pantalons.

My interpretation i try to alert you to before is in 1853 teh Turk chasseurs are wearing teh an old style post Napoleonic turkish uniform 1820-1838. This is North African(Turk)Influence Balkan/Algerian.((Which looks liek a predessessor of the 1877 zouave uniform. ))

When i send you copy of Marcel Roubicek;s Modern Ottoman Army, of colonial period it may express itself clearer. There was a pre exisiting OLD unifrom in 1853.

As i mention to Dave OBrien today , it has to be considered is teh unit Turk. But then question okay is it Algerian Egyptian Tunisian or Balkan ,or other Ottoman Empire subjects from redeefs(albania chechnia georgia syria etc ) collected in Istanboul when teh Sultan asked for volunteers.

I am getting to know the differences.Is a pity i am busy with other distractions.But there is scant source, to which if pasting it together, can give an oblique opinion.

The Turkish Army construction is better explained in Roubicek tahn anywhere else i have read so far.

Also teh Polish volinteer soldoers to fight for tueks
situation is again better expalined in Roubicek.

An amazing resource mine is teh contemporary newspaper Sketches Graphic,Illustrated London News etc.on ebay/.Is strange to discuss turks on teh forum but i enjoy very much.

I will have another look at Nafziger.When i start with S-R I had no idea Turks were so complex chuckle.

Re: Turkish chasseurs

Hi Hank,

I think every army is so complex when we really go into this subject. I made the same experience two years ago with Napoleonic Scandinavian troops...

I am looking forward to Roubicek. Good to hear that he has some description on the Polish legion too. I have uniformplates for five different Polish cavalryregiments in Turkish service, but no battlerecord of them.

The next question is, how are the Greek Regiments in Russian service organised? I know the Balaclava batallion in Russian Caucasian uniforms (BTW, the Caucasus-corps would be a nice future Strelets-Set). At Eupatoria we have descriptions of Greeks fighting in National-dress.

I am looking forward to see the Turkish pre 1853 uniform. I have several plates for the 1830ies uniforms with funny colours and a strange headgear.

cheers
uWE

Re: Turkish chasseurs

Hi Uwe, Roubicek's drawings now appears to me as if they were commercial art designed for cartoons of the period.

General Joseph-Emile Vanson's work looks more aesthetically correct watercolors and in proportional.these seem paralell to Cadogans watercolors.i wonder if they met.

I am surprised by no replies from Biblioteque de la musee de L'armie is intriguing.I have monsieur persistence helping me... chuckle.

Going by b/w line drawing or color replicates alone is not good/IDEAL i know.So many uniform variants with so many differing ethic interpretations.Look at the headware,we see fez ,scarfes, tarboosh, shamal and fez, kurdish cap. Aiyee.Then old uniforms,new and mixture was common.One statement needs a proof of being in art etc.Then the art must be analysed.I have seen this week a yellow crimean scotch solder in kilt which i not seen beofre.Its presence for me then killed teh other material with it regarding authenticity.

I imagine being the quarter master and going to different factories to order uniforms and give contarcts.Then teh different dye techniques and cloth cuts and variant styles appear.Plus teh bartering with merchants suppliers,shipping merchants timescales etc and commissions to deal with .Then multiply and replicate for a whole unifrom and euipage ,what a headache.

However when we paste these with contemporary newspaper sketches and written accounts of observors who were present , i think we are getting close to the best result.

So I hope sometime soon we will have found enough evidence to sit down and thrash out the anomolies. langauge barriers are receeding thankfully, so see what turns up.every year something is found in the museum cellars.

I think you have the right idea and use language words to search for clues.But is only as good as material that is available on teh internet like everything else.But we do not give up .EWhat terrible puzzles our ancestors left for our generations to piece together .SO much of history has been lost sadly.

lets see what else we find.The Fighting Fez

Re: Turkish chasseurs

Dear Uwe,

thank you for your new research !
It's really great !

As we all know, you are "heavy in work".
When will you write again in this finest way of "Luebke-English", so that you maybe become "heavy on wire" ?
Equal goes is loose !
But, what shalls ?
There stand one yes the hair to mountain !
You are heavy on the woodway !

Uwe, so certainly you had already the lesson "English for Runaways" !

Uwe, Uwe, when will you really turn from a child to an adult in your mind ? Playing with figures ? Playing historic war with toy stuff, again and again ? What says your wife when she recognizes that she has married a child ?

Playing with figures is good, playing with them is fine, I'd like to play with them all the time.

The next battle on the playground of the year 1809 will come soon ! Turn to be ready for this moment !

Cheers,
Erwin