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Re: Re: Re: Re: PSR Romans Review - Flat Shields Revisited

We are talking about 1st-2nd c. AD shields, aren't we? OK.

This "one reference" is the QUINTESSENCE of many studies made by generations of archaeologists and historians of ancient history. It's a CONSENSUS about what was THE NORM, reached by the specialists in the field resulting from decades of research. If convincing new material justifying a significant re-assessment should emerge from somewhere, the consensus would be adjusted.

Of course, as already implied by PSR, this does not exclude exceptions. E.g., that in a case of emergency some legionary whose shield had been rendered useless during a fight might have picked up a dead auxiliary's flat shield lying around to continue the fight.
Or that soldiers of units counting originally among the auxiliary and then promoted legionary (such as the I and II Adiutrices legions, for example) may have continued to carry their flat shields till they were no longer useable or, more likely, till the new legionary shields were ready to be issued.
For, as others have already mentioned, quite clearly, the shield design was also determined by the different tactics used by legionaries and auxiliaries. During the classical period, legionaries were destined to fight in closer and more aggressive (shock) formation than auxiliaries. The shields of both categories of fighters were designed to meet their respective tactics best.

Certainly, there are more (reasons for) exceptions one could think of. But, quite obviously, during the 1st-2nd c. AD, THE NORM was that auxiliaries carried flat shields while those of the legionaries were curved. I think you should be able to live with this insight...

If not - who cares? At any rate, you'll have to live with the fact that I am convinced that the Turks are descended from the smurfs...

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: PSR Romans Review - Flat Shields Revisited

I think you'll find, Kaptn, that it was the Persians who were descended from the Smurfs(or perhaos the other way round)I cite the evidence of the Phrygian Cap, a clear eastern adaptation of the Smurf headgear. The Persians also carried flat shields, but there is no ecidence that the Smurfs used either curved or flat versions.

ARRGHHH!!!

The Persians? Ridiculous!

Sorry to say that you've absolutely NOT kept yourself in the picture. Evidently, you've overlooked my highly authoritative contribution on that matter, which is not only incomprehensible but even inpardonable. As I do not ordinarily repeat myself for the sake of any Tom, Dick, Harry or Ian, consider my referring you to the aforementioned terribly bright contribution an extraordinary favour (in case you can't follow you're just too stupid):

http://pub33.bravenet.com/forum/2833323740/fetch/948773/3



Cheers and best regards

Re: ARRGHHH!!!

I was going to post the proof of those arguments on my blog but since there was no money in it I changed my mind.

Re: ARRGHHH!!!

Kaptn,
I bow to your meticulous research. OK. They're Turks. But obviously Turks on Blue Bayou(and we know a song about that). Kemal Attasmurf, eat yer heart out!

Re: PSR Romans Review - Flat Shields Revisited

Curved Scutums were made from three layers of very thin wood forming a simple ply construction the outer wood was different to the inner wood the idea was to prevent the shield splitting the layers were glued together and then covered, either all metal edges were used or stitched raw hide ones sometimes metal only at the top edge.. there are a number of variations on shape, the shields are heavy and not suited to light infantry..the curved shape is stronger and gives more protection to the body whilst enabling easier use of the short sword...
By Contrast the flat shield is made of thin single planks glued edge to egde and reinforced with a metal or rawhide edging usually stitched on, the shields are thin and fairly light and are ideal for light infantry use and was commonly used by the enemies of rome, indeed this would be the type of shield the Auxiliarys would be used too in there native tribes.... Trajans coloumn in particlar shows the diffence in legionary and auxiliary shields although it should be remembered it is artistic in its interpretation.... I would not rule out flat shields being used by Legionaires but I dont think it is currently excepted in Archeological circles.....

Cheers

Thanks PSR - I really like your Amazon links!!!

Re: Flat/curved Roman shields:

Perhaps Strelets could simply produce a sprue of curved legionary shields so that the pedants among us can do our own modifications? The production costs shouldn't be too high, and I'd certainly be interested in buying several boxes worth...

Re: Re: Flat/curved Roman shields:

Try converting them mike, with at least half of the bods it just won´t work, not only that the model ends up ruined but the other available shields eg, hat- too small, Italeri- big hole in the middle, Zvezda - same problem.
Basically, Legionaries-Curved, Auxillaries-Flat.