Strelets Forum

Welcome to the Strelets Forum.
Please feel free to discuss any aspect of 1/72 scale plastic figures, not simply Strelets.
If you have any questions about our products then we will answer them here.

Strelets Forum
Start a New Topic 
Author
Comment
View Entire Thread
Re: Re: I kind of like them

This set is very useful and adds variety. I dig it.

Re: Re: Re: I kind of like them

I'm not an expert, but it looks like some of the figures have helmets that at least resemble what we might assume could be remnants of Batavian helmets:
http://www.romanarmy.net/batavianhelm.htm

Otherwise, I am convinced that In dubio is right on the money. Personally, I would tend to believe that a Romanized society like the Batavians, with highly organized troops, would have warriors with a much more 'cultivated appearance' (whatever that may be) than Strelets' Batavians. Saying that, any of these figures could be placed in a generic Germanic raiding force. So I'll buy them.

You want proper Batavian cavalry in Roman service?

No problem!

Just buy the HaT Imperial Roman Auxiliary Cavalry and Imperial Roman Praetorian Cavalry sets - or the forthcoming Strelets Roman cavalry (= Roman auxiliary cavalry) sets - and make a vexillum bearing the inscription "ALA BATAVORUM".

Or what do you think where Roman auxiliaries came from? From planet Mars?

But, please, Strelets - if it's not already too late - you should really replace that draco standard by a proper 1st century AD standard, and that strange instrument looking like a mix of carnyx and lur should be replaced by a lituus or cornu (I posted the links earlier). And please don't mar the whole set by providing horses with fur shabraques. Just horned saddles!

Batavian cavalry: a great set!

Use them with Caesar's fantasy figures as generic barbarian cavalry: perfect!

To Strelets: Just in case of a shortage of plastic...

Now that Hank has provided you with excellent sources on the CW Turks, just melt the smurfs down and turn them into first class CW Turks!

Golly, can't believe I 've just supported Hank's affaire de coeur...

In dubio! Now shut up!!!

I love this set

I don't know what the fuss is all about, unless you think armies were all made up of perfectly attired and equiped troops all permanently lined up neatly.

They certainly add variety. They might not be what the pedantic may or may not have been led to believe what Batavians were like, if so - use them as something else!

Yeah, don't be pedantic,...

...use them as medieval engineers and castle defenders!

Re: Yeah, don't be pedantic,...

Or Turkish CW mounted infantry - irregulars, of course.

Re: Re: Yeah, don't be pedantic,...

I agree that the box is misleading but then we have PSR nowadays to save us from making mistakes but as a bunch of Celts or Germans then are just more grist to the mill.

Re: Yeah, don't be pedantic,...

It all depends on what you mean by 'pedantic'...

Zug and the Romans

Was this not a Roman town.

Re: Zug and the Romans

To be honest I've got the Germanic and Batavian sets together with the Seldjuk cavalry last weekend.

While the Seldjuk are a very good set in my eyes I wasn't really impressed with the other two.
So I have to support InDubio in this case

BTW, why do we have this difference in the sculpting with the Strelets sets? Some are really good made in details and poses, others have a lot of historical and natural (poses) mistakes. Are there two sculptors who are working in the same style?

cheers
Uwe

Re: Re: Zug and the Romans

Uwe, I think we have the sorceror and teh apprentice making teh figures

Re: Yeah, don't be pedantic,...

For 'pedantic' read 'anal'.

Re: Re: Yeah, don't be pedantic,...

Revealing argumentation

Re: Re: Re: Yeah, don't be pedantic,...

Re: PSR review of Strelets Batavian cavalry in Roman service

from 92ad till 102/3ad the III + VIIII cohors Batavorum were stationed at the roman military fort of Vindolanda in northern england, the archeological levels for this period are a sealed complex because the forts which were made of wood were regularly demolished and rebuilt ,so its possible to get a good idea of just exactly what the batavians were wearing in roman service at this time.....the evidence would suggest a typical Auxiliary roman unit, this has tended to be over simplified for public consumption.. for example lorica segmentata finds would suggest that auxiliarys also wore this type of armour not just mail, as well as many types of helmets and so on... you can also read the commanders letters as well as many from his men here http://vindolanda.csad.ox.ac.uk/
..check the Vindolanda web site http://www.vindolanda.com/
or visit is well worth it....

Cheers

Re: Re: PSR review of Strelets Batavian cavalry in Roman service

"...lorica segmentata finds would suggest that auxiliarys also wore this type of armour not just mail, as well as many types of helmets and so on..."

Yes. The following two reliefs may point to the same direction. The first one, showing Roman cavalrymen, is from Arlon, dating to the 3rd quarter of the 1st century AD. They appear to wear mail shirts but segmented shoulder defences (click "Sommaire", and then "Les cavaliers romains"):

http://membres.lycos.fr/museearlon/

The second is an early third century tombstone from Greece showing a Roman soldier, apparently from Sparta, wearing pilos-helmet and lorica segmentata:

http://www.romanarmy.com/cms/component/option,com_imagebase/task,view/cid,169/Itemid,94/

However, in both cases, the affiliation of the soldiers remains unclear. The cavalrymen appear to be auxiliaries, but could also have been legionary cavalry. The infantryman may have been a member of a Spartan auxiliary cohort, or one of Caracalla's "hellenized" legionaries. Who knows?

Anyway, quite interesting sources which show what should be understood by what I'd call "acceptable varieties". Usually, you'll always find archaeological evidence for this kind of varieties while others are just inacceptable as they are based on pure imagination for which there is no convincing evidence whatsoever.

Cheers

Re: Re: Re: PSR review of Strelets Batavian cavalry in Roman service

Not mentioning historical background those germanic cavalery sets are both not impressive. not even avarage. they are just the ugliest I've ever bought made by Strelets. Seldjuk cav. rules but you cannot say the same of Germans. Different sculptor and visible deacrese in quality.

Re: PSR review of Strelets Batavian cavalry in Roman service

In my oppinion the best ancient german set ever made was that of hat. not because of their great sculpting or the lifelike poses (in these points there were not so good) but they feature the one thing that made them distinguishable as early germanics. the suebenknoten or suebi hairknot.
so with the new strelets sets we now have a bunch of figures that, with their mix of equipment could be everything (or nothing).

Re: PSR review of Strelets Batavian cavalry in Roman service

Hi Dan, Its probarbly not appropriate to have the suebian knot as a hair style for batavians, and for batavians in roman service who would invariably be wearing various forms of cavalry helmet, would likely be impossible.... evidence suggest a helmet wig in the roman style usually held on to the helmet by a decorative wreath...at least for some..
Although I would agree with you in that hat currently have the best germanic infantry at least for the earlier iron age... although this rapidly changes from the 1st century ad in favour of large round shields and long swords, many of roman manufacture probarbly mostly obtained by black market weapons dealers rather then war in exchange for slaves.... roman helmet finds are not common in germanic contexts but do occur sometimes alterred or redecorated to more germanic taste, as does mail armour... the earliest find comes from hjortspring in denmark from around 300bc aproximatly 10 sets.. also from thorsberg 200+ad as well as parts and complete examples of roman helmets and others... neither of these regions are inside the roman empire....I should point that in 1/72 scale the distinctive german decoration would be largely invisible...
An example of a possible germanic made helmet could be the famous silver helmet from thorsberg (this was originally only the outer decoration of a iron helmet) this is a later type and based on roman helmets from the same era...

Cheers

Re: PSR review of Strelets Batavian cavalry in Roman service

hi ironsides,

i absolutely agree with you concerning germans in roman army service. with roman equipment and helmets on (suggesting that the roman army was really that uniform) there would perhaps be no difference between
the batavians and other auxillary troops. on the other hand when you see the tombstones on the graveyard oft the equites singularii in rom one can imagine that they were very proud of their heritage.
(insciptions say : "from batavian nation" or "from ubii nation" never from german)
perhaps that heritage lived in som sort of special colour in their clothing or the painting on their shields, so sadly we will never know for sure...
concerning the suebi hairknot i didnt made it clear in my last post. i didnt wanted it for the batavians but when you look at all the early germanic pre migration period sets that came out over the last years most of them have no specific germanic features.
(strelets new germanic cavalry even uses a cover picture from the hadrians column on which the germans have the hairknot)

Re: Re: PSR review of Strelets Batavian cavalry in Roman service

The inscriptions talk about the tribe rather than the nation because there was no German nation. Today we are used to calling ourselves by the nation we live in - in those days your identity was your tribe or grouping, so while the Batavians were Germanic it was Batavi that defined them.

Re: PSR review of Strelets Batavian cavalry in Roman service

To be fair you could consider these figures as representing the batavian mercenarys who fought under their chieftain Chariovalda in the army of Germanicus, as such though I would consider them as an extension of the previous germanic Cavalry set....from the time of Augustus however the batavians would have formed Auxliary Alae within the roman army, and as such would have been equipted accordingly... later only the names would exist so the batavian units stationed at vindolanda probably had other nationality or tribesmen in there ranks...

cheers

Re: Re: PSR review of Strelets Batavian cavalry in Roman service

"To be fair you could consider these figures as representing the batavian mercenarys who fought under their chieftain Chariovalda in the army of Germanicus, as such though I would consider them as an extension of the previous germanic Cavalry set....from the time of Augustus however..."

Well, I think you are quite mistaken here. The campaign of Germanicus took place in 16AD, that is AFTER Augustus' death in 14AD. The emperor at the time was Tiberius. Chieftain Chariovalda, in my opinion, was nothing else but the first commander of the ala Batavorum.

Re: PSR review of Strelets Batavian cavalry in Roman service

In Dubio, I dont see that this is a problem..I wasent suggesting that all germanic Auxilia were not equipt by the romans only that some 'may' not have been...

This is certainly the view of malcolm Todd in "the northern barbarians" Pg33

Cheers

Re: PSR review of Strelets Batavian cavalry in Roman service

Indubio, having thought it over I see your point, your absolutly right my mistake...Chariovalda must have been the original leader of alae batavorum...

cheers