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forum opinion - big box forumat is a rip off

at this point, big box sets have done nothing to benefit me, the cash paying customer. they have been a 75% waste of my money.

they could only benefit collectors 10 years from now, on eBay, who've never bought streltes at all, to benefit from the nominal discount of 4 sets in 1, yet rip off me, the loyal customer today.

as is, so far, I've already got 3 of the 4 sets included in each big box, so $30 of the $40 cost is a waste of my money. i've already bought more than enough of the previously released sets. now i feel really ripped off just to get the 1 new set. and it really dissappoints me that i was such a strong supporter of the only 1 new set, such as french curassier sets.

as much as I have wanted the knights set with jokers and drunken knights, I just havn't been able to waste my money on sets I didn't want. tough crud to me, huh?

i have been a strong supporter of sr, but the big box stuff really ticks me off that i can't get the new sets i want, and have to buy 3 sets i've already bought or truly don't want.

s r big box format is a rip off. other big box sets, such as the marx HO sets of the 1960's were worth the money then.

its one thing to make me eat 1 set, or 2 sets, but to expect me to eat 3 sets in each big box, you've got balls.

i'm not trying to be rude. i only want to be as blatantly obvious as you, for my money !!!

and, yes, it does pain me to say this to my favorite 1/72 manufacturer. but not more than it pains you to rip me off.

in summary, your big box format is a rip off of 75% of my investment, and i want you to know it, and i certainly hope you appreciate it when you collect the money you charge for them.

:-(

Re: forum opinion - big box forumat is a rip off

I couldn't agree more, Dave. I have boycotted the Big Box format, buying only those individual sets I need in the quantities required.
These big sets have obvious value for those who are starting out to model a period, but are a rip-off for those of us who have loyally bought the new release figures in the past as they emerged from the production chain.

Re: forum opinion - big box forumat is a rip off

in my opinion the big box walue is that if you dont have those sets that previousley realised.

Re: forum opinion - big box forumat is a rip off

I remember bellyaching here on the forums about the Medieval Britain big-box when I first started collecting 1/72 mini's a year or so ago. I eventually bit the bullet and got the set, even though I didn't want the badly sculpted Scottish and English sets.

I've ended up using many of those old figures for conversions and other bits, so they weren't a complete waste. I feel sorry for those of you who already bought the old sets, but as Strelets has explained, they can't afford to release the sets otherwise. Unless of course we'd rather pay BUM/GerMan type prices.

Here's my question to Strelets R-Would charging double price for new sets alone work out financially for the company? I know I wouldn't mind paying more for a set I really wanted.

That said, I'm going to hold off on buying any of the Strelets Ancient sets until they are released in a big box set.

Re: Re: forum opinion - big box forumat is a rip off

Why can't Strelets afford to release a set of french cuirassiers otherwise? With dozens of other sets they can do.
I don't understand that and I feel ripped off, too. I liked the medieval set and Borodino but did not buy them because of the other bad sculpted sets in it. It's a waste of money. I agree.

Re: Re: forum opinion - big box forumat is a rip off

Dear Juba,

we wouldn't like to increase prices for our products, therefore we haven't considered charging more for the unique sets.

Best regards,

Strelets

Re: forum opinion - big box forumat is a rip off

I got into the crimea figures late, and so the Big box sets have been a great help in catching up with sets that I have missed. I bought the Borodino set because the new sets were a must have and I was happy to pay extra even if I had to get some figures I already had in abundance. As for the Medieval set, I had the three old boxes, however the set that was exclusive to that big box was worth the price of buying the whole set itself. They are among my favourite set of figures that strelets or any other company have ever produced. Brillant sculpting and great poses, as I say worth the price of the large set on their own. I have some heavy brigade figures, but could do with more, and I am looking forward to the new figures that will come with this set. An important point is that Strelets figures that are out for any lenght of time become very hard to get. So people coming into the hobby will actually benefit from the big box sets. I understand where you are coming from in regard to buying figures you have already bought in abundance, but the way I look at it is, I'm paying extra for some wonderfull new figures that would not be out there only for the big box format. Expensive maybe, worth it Definately!

Re: forum opinion - big box forumat is a rip off

I refused to buy the medievil big box set even though I wanted the extra figures badly (I didn't buy the first Italieri jousting set either,but I did buy the second one). This is because of the shortage of civilian figures,but that will be corrected when Valdemar issues some figures later this month. I did buy the latest Strelits CW big box because I figured I could always use the extra figures to fill out the ranks nicely. Personally,I would be willing to pay double price for a mini box containing the extra figures.

RHR

Re: forum opinion - big box forumat is a rip off

I think we need compromise-1 set which strelets cant sell and 3new ones.Is not right for these who buy sets as soon as they make their ways to the shops.

And I personaly hate idea of cesar too.To get assirian king or egiptan faraon....and so on.ITs like a lotery.I hate lotery because you never know and in hobby shouldnt be that way.But some people will buy extra set just to get a special figure.I can imagine myself or some other colector who will buy 10 sets and will not get the one he wonted but someone who ownes shop can get it because he can find out.

So because of that I will suport piracy-I hope someone will make copies of these kings or some hard too get figures.Like a MARX or other.Than I will prefer my own way.Because im not that rich.Us.army dosent pay that much.

Best regards to all

big box format is better than hard plastic and four marching poses in tan

Gents, I've come to like the big box sets because it is a way for me to get 4 sets of figures for just over $6. Expensiv? Yes, but compared to what it costs to buy a single box of figures this is a good deal. Not only that, but I want to build up my Crimean army and this is a good way to do it.

Strelets is one of my favorite mfgs and if this is what they need to do in order to make cool sets in fantastic poses with great colors, then by all means I'm for the big box format.

Sorry Dave, but big box format beats hard plastic, with a boring 9 poses (3 of them marching) in tan plastic.

Re: big box format is better than hard plastic and four marching poses in tan

Hi Scott,

Yes, I agree, I love the soft plastic and in great colors too. I very much dislike the hard plastic some are using. I have been very verbal about it and I wish others would use the forums to complain too. HaT for one will listen, and in fact, encourages members to be open and free about their feelings, and not shy. They have said so and even hold polls to find out what most customers want.

I think, once we have bit the bullet, and paid the higher price for the big box, we should be offered additional single sets of the ones we want only, at a single box price, without a box - just in a zip-lock style bag, or just put in the big box.

I'd love to buy 4 sets of the Crimean Valley of Death set, but there is no way I'm paying $160.

I think, for hobby shop shelves, the big box with old sets is fine to attract new customers, but I don't like being thrown into that category and forced into this situation, after supporting sr for so long.

I don't think this is how good customers should be treated.

I can't imagine it would break sr's bank to offer us a few single sets after buying a big box anyway thru our favorite dealers. This could be done via pre-orders before your dealer even orders any from their suppliers.

I wouldn't mind big box formats so much..........

if like Dave and others have mentioned, we didn't have to buy sets we already have. So, either let us know at the beginning that it's possible this or that set will be part of a big box (because you know you might do one sprue of command set), or maybe hold off on releasing sets until you can do them all together. I might have bought the Medeivel set or the Russian Command set if I hadn't already bought the other sets.

Just give us a heads up. Let us in on the ideas and processes. We can choose to hold off if we want to buy a big box, or buy them singly, but give us a choice.

Would it be easier to hold the sets til they are all done? (but please let us see what is in it so we can know).

Would it be easier to do what you've already done and sell sets as they come out and do a big box with those and a new one later (which if that's what works, all I ask is you let us know that so we will wait to buy the big box).

Re: I wouldn't mind big box formats so much..........

Dear Arlin,

we aren't planning BB sets that far in advance, therefore, we can't tell you now what sets will be released in 1 year.

Best regards,

Strelets

Re: forum opinion - big box forumat is a rip off

big box sets have their uses, but NOT after some of the sets you're including have been released! using Strelets as an example, had they released their Medievel big box before their other sets were released individually, it would have been a hit! THEN release all the sets except for the court/command set as who needs more than 1 or 2 of these? the individual sets will sell well as people will want to add more to fill out their armies. the same goes for their other big boxes. you only need 1 or 2 Russian command/hospital sets. the only 1 i can see getting more play is the Balaclava casualty set as maybe diorama makers would want more, but you could wait on this & see what demand says.

whenever a new set is announced, buyers always have a preconceived idea as to how many sets they are going to want or need & buy. once a set is released, they fill those wants & needs. if you put out the big box after they've gotten their quota, they're not going to be as anxious to buy it even for a cool specialty set. a lot of people would rather go without because they don't need more of the already released sets or they simply can't afford or want to waste the money on the big box when so much other things are coming out.

the wise choice would be to announce that certain sets will be coming out in a big box prior to their being released & that of these sets, certain ones will be available shortly after as individuals. that way, everybody can plan accordingly, big boxes will sell probably better then they would now & people can gage how to spend their limited toy soldier $s.

Re: Re: forum opinion - big box forumat is a rip off

Nice idea but don't let us be blue-eyed. The main reason for Strelets to release big boxes is to get rid of sets that didn't sell well, mainly for the very simple reason that they were of rather low quality. The one or sometimes two new sets in a big box are meant as a bait. Clearly, this is an attempt at making at least some profit out of sets they otherwise would have to throw straight into the bin.

@Juba
I'd rather not wait for an ancients big box. Surely, this would include the Germanic horsemen and Batavian cavalry in Roman service sets of which I dare predict that they will not be bought by many people (except those who like Asterix, Obelix, and the smurfs) .

suck it up dudes -

Big box format is good.However i think if we had some small redoubts and battlefield features eg shore battery or pie battery of the malakhof would help justify sets and enhance collections even more.
the additional sets are a must.

THE DEALERS ARE ABLE TO SELL figures not selling on the shelf etc dealers reorder only when stocks run out,sTRELETS GETS MORE money and as you see reinvests in producing more.We saw the horse soldier stamPede and the Roman invasion anything to stop hank getting CW Turkish Infantry(CHUCKLE...I'M CRYING REALLY)

Re: forum opinion - big box forumat is a rip off

Dave, I would agree in principle with you. I had already got the existing sets that were included in the Borodino BB. At the time it suited my needs to have the additional existing sets but it did not markedly add to my collection range.

I also have to agree with In Dubio etc, this appears to be a way to clear a back log of underselling sets, although for those who have not yet started collecting those sets, the current BB format is a good way to catch up.

For me, I like the concept of the BB format.
However I believe Strelets may have erred in the way to approach this, or a least in a manner where it was more likely to encourage a better selling point for the BB and any subsequent supporting sets.

I feel the BB format should have been arranged so that each box contained a main infantry (48 figures), a main cavalry (12 riders and horses), main artillary (4 cannon pieces and supporting crew, say 48 piece set), ie 3 sets in the box and possibly some additional accessories for good measure.

A corresponding opposing army(s) in separate BB format etc etc. to complete the theme or conflict. (Dont they do this in metal??)

This would have allowed for a total package army for all eras to be collected from the start and would then have provided Strelets the opportunity to develope other specialist supporting sets to these armies which could be sold individually.

Strelets have said that they would not be doing artillary in certain eras as there already exists sets from other manufacturers in those eras. Given the unique manner and individuality of their sculpting and poses, I feel this may have been a mistake and an artillary set would be a great asset to a BB .

Maybe for future themes or eras Strelets could develope the BB format in this way, rather than current format.


As I read it there is already a range of 'catch-up' sets needed for the likes of the Crimean Wars and some other Colonial conflicts.

How about a starter BB for CW Turks ??
How would you feel about that as a concept??

cheers Mike McA


Re: Re: forum opinion - big box forumat is a rip off

Hi Mike,

Please see my comment under Scott's above. You and I were posting at the same time. :-)

I think you are correct in commenting that sr should be making their own artillery sets. The Russian naval cannons are absolutely great.

sr should be expanding on those big cannons, siege cannons, etc. rather than doing nothing, just because someone else made another set light artillery set. So what!

It hasn't stopped Zvezda or Italeri and others from duplicating sets, and people just love having a variety to choose from, or even buy all.

I think the big box sets are a great idea on hobby shelves, but for us who could pre-order by mail, we should be given a chance to buy additional single sets after buying one big box.

Thanks again!

Re: Re: Re: forum opinion - big box forumat is a rip off

Yep that would encourage those who wanted to expand on a certain set group to do so without being penalised.

Loyalty in business is a huge marketing privilage, not often achieved and should never be taken advantage of.

SR could just about offer a personal service to those who frequent this forum.

I would like to know whether SR are going to review their stance on artillary sets and the BB format.

Sure they could argue that there is little wrong with the existing.

But what could be the possibilities if they thought outside the square.

I hope this is not deemed as critisism of SR, I love their figures and range, just hoping that they can become more customer flexible friendly, it would not hurt their business.

cheers Mike McA

Many metal manufacturers give bulk discount/ Strelets big box voucher

Especialy at wargame shows. I like teh CW Turkish Artillery cavalry Infantry big Box set which as you guys above say helps out start up collectors.

Would be nice to have a DISCOUNT VOUCHER on the big box and even all boxes.

Seriously teh CW range needs scenis to enhance the range.A malkhov model, small redoubt , raglans farmhouse/HQ etc .Okay well back to the conversions and i'm spending alot extra money getting other figures tochop and get what i want.

Re: Many metal manufacturers give bulk discount/ Strelets big box voucher

Dear Hank,

Malakhoff can be a BB option.
Regards,

Strelets

Re: Re: Re: Re: forum opinion - big box forumat is a rip off

"Welcome to the Strelets Forum. Please feel free to discuss any aspect of 1/72 scale plastic figures, not simply Strelets. If you have any questions about our products then we will answer them here."

This is the welcome message at the top. sr should know how it's customers feel. This forum's members have been excellent about self-policing itself and have given much great advice to sr as well as each other.

Topics that are important, simply have to be reopened periodically as memories fade, there is a turn-over in members, and industry and situations change. Everyone should be encouraged to re-visit topics periodically and express their wishes.

I think we have heaped tons of praises on sr for it's excellent products. But we mustn't be afraid to express something we are not pleased about also. So long as we are contributing suggestions for consideration, then the forum is fulfilling it's purpose.

sr's part of my collection has long been a favorite which will stay with me until the end. If we didn't care, we wouldn't bother to go out on a limb and try to make things better for sr, it's customers, and the hobby. I think everyone benefits from sincere discussion, especially when there are differing opinions.

This is how everyone should be able to get what they want and win in the end.

I didn't buy the Kings Court bb set because of the cost/set mix. I was able to buy a few sets of the Russian bb new sets separately because of my supplier.

But I'm still warming up to the latest bb sets. This means I've not bought the last 2 yet because of hesitation. This means sr is losing sales from me, and maybe others too. They should know this. For a seasoned collector like myself, and some other forum members, 1 new and 3 old sets isn't attractive.

I think something needs to be done to make it easier for us seasoned guys, although the bb sets should still be available.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: forum opinion - big box forumat is a rip off

Why don't they sell the BB AND the single new set at the same time?
At the moment, the BB attracts newcomers and a few "old" collectors. It seems like most of the old ones are quite annoyed and reluctant to buy them.
Selling the BB and the single set at the same time SR would still get the newcomers and the loss of the few "old" ones would be easily recovered by purchases by all the rest of old collectors...

Estimate the cost dudes and dont be too hard on them

I dont think there can be a lot of mark up on the figures.To make a profit strelets has to cover

designer/sculptor costs
mold making
art work
bank charges interest
box material from printers
plastic
research
storage
shipping from ukraine
taxes
alot of time and cordination

on one regular size box i reckon they are lucky to make 2UKPounds clear profit on what they sell to hannants etc

with the big boxes they are trying to reduce deficit
and prod sales figures to be able to reinvest and make more.Its a sensible business move.It helps move stock from a shelf ,and keep the retailers happy to stock their products.

the big boxes at least got the Russian Command and Charge of th eLight brigade casualty sets for us.So look on the bright side of life.

Re: Estimate the cost dudes and dont be too hard on them

Hank, I agree with you 100%. I'm sticking by Strelets on this one. I want them to stay in business and I want CW sets, so if this is what it takes, then fine by me. One big box set is cheaper that 18 54mm soldiers, so guys if you think this is pricey then think again. If Strelets makes one CW set a year and sells it in big box with three other sets I already have, then I'm buying. If you don't want to buy that's your choice; just don't complain if they stop making CW and stop wondering why napoleonic and other sets take precedence.

Strelets just need to let us know

So as others have mentioned, we didn't have to buy sets we already have. So, either let us know at the beginning that it's possible this or that set will be part of a big box (because you know you might do one sprue of command set), or maybe hold off on releasing sets until you can do them all together. I might have bought the Medeivel set or the Russian Command set if I hadn't already bought the other sets.

Just give us a heads up. Let us in on the ideas and processes. We can choose to hold off if we want to buy a big box, or buy them singly, but give us a choice.

Would it be easier to hold the sets til they are all done? (but please let us see what is in it so we can know).

Would it be easier to do what you've already done and sell sets as they come out and do a big box with those and a new one later (which if that's what works, all I ask is you let us know that so we will wait to buy the big box).

Re: Strelets just need to let us know

Anyone can see this on sr's homepage ...

"Strelets*R was founded in 1998 to fill the gaps in the figure market that had previously had to be filled with conversions by collectors themselves."

This is no longer true.

Romans, Barbarians, Roman Aux's, Rome's Buddys who look just like Rome's enemies, more knights, and more knights ...

... HaT, ... Zvezda, ... Italeri, ... Airfix, ... Ceasar, ... Evolution, ... Lucky Toys, ... Revell, ... Valdemar, ... Miniknight, ... and other small companies, have already done, or have previously released your newest sets.

Kinda conflicts with the Mission Statement, doesn't it?

Worse yet, sr has completly ignored their "Inside Customers."

Since 1997, before sr existed, many began e-mailing HaT, always getting an immediate response. And it was never a no in my case. I was always encouraged to speak out and ask for what I wanted. And when the HaT Forum was begun, I was told to fight for my preferences there. And since then, the customers get what they wanted. In fact, still do!

Here, I'm told via the homepage to view my opinion on the forum, "where questions are answered" but my comments have gone comepletely ignored during this entire thread.

Thanks for ignoring your best friends and customers any small company, especially from Ukraine, could ever want. HaT would love all of these guys to jump ship ... especially when people come here to falsely accuse them of not listening and responding.

But response here ... ? How long should I check back?

$40 USD a box ... for a new Crimean Set? ... with 3 more sets your best customers already purchased.

Your customers have given you good ideas, and asked for small considerations, but ... Silence!

If you don't agree with what has been said, then consider this ... "One of your Customers comes from a generation where the Customer was considered King, and manufacturors wanted to impress Customers."

The Forum has spoken out, and an answer is warrented from you. Especially, because, "This is where your questions are answered" in your own words (reminder of your mission statement).

This could be a self fulfilling prophesy...

you have to throw a bunch of sets in the big box that aren't selling and throw one special sprue in there to force people to buy everything to get that one sprue. So people may stop buying individual sets and wait for the big box. Thus, since you aren't selling the sets, I guess you're forced to do the big box to sell all these sets no one is buying.

Like I said, a little communication will go a long way.

Re: Re: Strelets just need to let us know

Dear ThePinkPanther,

with all due respect, while we are doing everything possible to answer the incoming questions, we can't guarantee to answer every single one. If you imagine hundreds of people working for Strelets, this message will be disappointing to you: few people behind Strelets have very demanding day-time jobs and can devote to the forum only part of their time free from the main job, family and other matters. If we could have a profit per box that was assumed earlier in this thead, we could have devoted more time to this business but since that is not the case, we can do just what we are doing now. We are sorry if it comes as a disappointment to you but that's the reality one should live with.

Best regards,

Strelets

Wow

I've gottas agree. Especailly when I have to buy four sets that I already have such as the medievil england set. You have my vote there.

On the other hand, If Streletes were to issue a supper set of, lets say all of the Roman or Crusade sets, much like IMEX did with their cival war sets, I would support the concept, so long as there was a significant savings over buying all of the sets seperately.

I get big box sets for $27. Vendors (not SR) is riping you off.

someone commented about the home page and mission statement. Who gives a crap? So what if the mission statement isn't updated? I don't give a flying f***. Strelts has dramatically increased output with great new sets. Should I be dissapointed that they have spent time in design and production instead of BS marketing? Strelets answers plenty of questions, and those that they don't answer are for a reason. Probably has something to do with competition. I asked a question above and it probably won't get answered. So what? Strelets has answered plenty of questions here. Maybe they are busy "doing" and have less time to answer questions than in the old days.

Second, I guess I better buy all the extra CW sets I want cause after reading the negative big box posts here there won't be any new CW ets for a while.

By the way

"Big Box" sets and repackaging is not indemic to Strelets. Look around next time you go to the store. Anyone who has other hobbies, such as Star Wars, can tell you that companies like Hasbro do this all the time. It's business 101 folks.

Be nice to hear something from Strelets at this point

Think we had a little modicom of clearing the air.
Cant be easy not being able to please everybody all the time.So LETS TURN DOWN THE HEAT and as they say in show biz....ask

Whats up doc !

No answer is a loud reply

Re: I get big box sets for $27. Vendors (not SR) is riping you off.

Dear Scott,

the delays usually are caused not by a competition but by far more simple things, like temporary absence, holidays or alike.

Regards,

Strelets

Re: forum opinion - big box forumat is a rip off

Dear Dave,

a small remark just to make the accounting right: usually the BB sets should cost like 3, not 4 single sets, therefore just 66 % of your money should be wasted, not 75 %.

The production run of BB sets is about 1.000 boxes only, our guts feeling is that in several years' time they should be worth more than they are worth now, therefore compensating you for the rip off of today.

Best regards,

Strelets

The big box is a great deal

Well said strelets. It's true that the value will increase in time. I can also imagine that when the artillery sets and Turkish figures will come out people will realise they need more russians or allies to go with them. So those "wasted" figures you don't need right now might be very usefull in the future.

Concerning the price I would like to say the following: it's not strelets ripping you off it's the vendors asking a lot. I bought the CW Russian staff set for 19 euro 50. So thats 5 euros a set. If you consider that the same vendor sells the standard sets for 8, 50 you can see it's a deal. So I bought several staff sets for the grenadiers and artillery, more then the staff set.

Re: The big box is a great deal

pIETER I DINT THINK STRELETS REALIZE WHAT A SALES TIME BOMB THEY ARE SITTING ON BY HOLDING BACK THE CW TURKISH.The Turkish release will help span years 1852-1896 Anno domini.

Re: Re: forum opinion - big box forumat is a rip off

Dear Strelets,

Well, I had hoped your response a couple of days ago above in another thread and mine also cleared the dust, but my gut feeling today tells me not.

Regardless of price, any time I would not need 3/4's (or 75%) of the contents of a purchase, whether I paid $1, $100, or more ... you know.

I'll take comfort in your prediction that in 10 years time I can get my money back when I sell off all this stuff.

Thank you for the advice.

Best Regards

Re: Re: Re: forum opinion - big box forumat is a Tip Off

You certainly butter no parsnips here (not that I'm saying the big box concept is a parsnip but more of a carrot for those who as you say own 3/4's of the figs on offer).

Strelets say's thier sets are worth investing. True, I believe them (the silver you pay today will water the gold carats of tomorrow)

With only a run of a thousand boxes it's not strictly speaking surplus stock. $_$ kerching! kerching!

Happy Collecting

Re: Re: Re: Re: forum opinion - big box forumat is a Tip Off

...and I'm sure those extra figs will start to repay the loan for being housed in such a big box.

No seriously I'm happy to see any CW range on offer by Strelets and make our hobby prosper for future generations to come (as I'm sure everybody does here).

Thank you Strelets

( Tip-off as in sport or betting ) Just incase anyone's still reading this thread.

Just in case I might have sounded offensive, just meant that I think the set is a good tip for as they say collectable in the future.

Viva Strelets figures

Happy collecting

Re: ( Tip-off as in sport or betting ) Just incase anyone's still reading this thread.

Dear S Kol,

I hope you'll jump in and add your opinion at the top of the page. Strelets is looking for ways to increase profits from existing production and Big Boxes and there may be some ways to do it by putting together different combinations ... Please jump up there! All opinions should certainly be welcome.

Happy Collecting too!