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Re: Re: Re: Your advise is required

be serious. Roman army between Ceasar and later wars changes its outfit. As far as I can see, the strelets miniset Romans are imperial romans (rectangular shield.

Yo YO Ma

Spartacus and the Judean Revolts

Re: Yo YO Ma

I suppose Sarmatian light and heavy cavalry will fit into strelets range perfectly.

They fought as Dacian allies against Trajan.

Roman Civil Wars

How about the Roman Civil Wars in which they were fighting amongst themselves in competing for the throne in Rome, otherwise known as the Social Wars.

Cast each set of Roman units in a rainbow of colours similar to the "Conquest of the Empire" boardgame. Also add a distinctive comander in each set such as Germanicus, etc.

In the end you can combine the sets like Zvezda did and market it as a boardgame, bigger and better than "Conquest of the Empire".

just an idea

Re: Roman Civil Wars

Dear Patrick,
I agree with your comment. It is only the Social War the one I disagree with, as this was fought in the 1st century BC, between romans and italians asking for roman citizenship.

Roman Civil Wars

I was corrected years ago by a "Supposed" Historian who stated that the Civil Wars and Social Wars were one in the same thing. I only posted that here for the ones who believed the same thing.

Re: Roman Civil Wars

Hi Patrick,

Your "supposed" historian wasn't that mistaken. Perhaps, he was not precise enough, or you didn't get him right. Actually, the 1st century BC was torn by so many wars, among them the Social War (91-89 BC) which also was the result of a conflict between opposed Roman political parties (nobles versus people's party)and subsequently developped into a civil war.


Re: Re: Your advise is required

For what it would be worth, I agree completely with Ted, with Jewish zealots being first on my list, secondly some good Germanic horse to go with the Germanic foot Hat has already released, the same would go with British horse, and Caledonians. Hat is already releasing, or about to release Parthians.

If you might be interested in a "what-if" enemy, perhaps the Han Chinese? Nobody's producing them, at least not yet. They did launch an expedition against the Romans at one time, thinking Antioch was the capital of the Empire, but when the Parthians told them the empire was much larger than the Chinese had supposed, they turned back... they were only a day's march from the farthest Roman outposts. If I remember correctly, I had read this in the WRG Armies of Ancient China, or Armies and Enemies of Imperial Rome.



Re: Your advise is required

Wow!! I love this question.
Taking into consideration the high frequency of civil wars in the early empire, usualy legions on the Rhine or Danube against legions in the East (Syria), my first choice would be "the praetorian guard". Never properly done in 1/72, and a set that should be popular, especially since it provides roman soldiers as depicted in older Hollywood movies. Praetorians changed their look according to the whims of emperors, the most notorious example being the helenistic look of the guard under Nero. However, the most famous look would be the one known under Augustus, good for most of the early imperial period:
Specific crested helmets, republican shields, muscle cuirass or the purple tunic over armor...
My second favorite would be jewish Solomon temple guards for the Jewish War. Mixture of helenistic and eastern garments, nicely shown in Mel Gibson's movie "The Passion of Christ".
Otherwise, the celtic rebellions and wars on the Rhine are provided with many existing and future sets, but if you decide to do them, I will by no means complain, but buy them. War on the Danube can also use some new sets - dacians, sarmatians. Sarmatian heavy cavalry was first employed by Vespasian, so they can work both with and against romans. First unit of roman clibanarii was formed 69 AD.


Re: Re: Your advise is required

How can you argue with Hollywood??? we are looking for historic figures, not for merchandise-toys.

Re: Re: Re: Your advise is required

i must say that apart from some pictorial evidence of the look of praetorians( most famous reprsented in museum of luvr) there is no archeological evidence they look like hollywood shows them. and the answer is very simple because they fight in close combat using legionary equipment which is described by the roman writers as sign of decline. they wore those sofisticated garment resambling golden days of glory ( it could be hellenistic in roman case because romans used to fight and used greek style of armour) only as a parade one which is a normal thing in all royal courts. even today in britain and vatican which remains only a tradition and doesnt mean they are usuful in the battle field now and then unless they are splendid. however a nice set of such splendid roman guards would be a good accomplishment to the roman figurs collection.

If we like it or not, Hollywood sells!

Sure Roland, I also want historic figures, and not fantasy toys. I also prefer accuracy over sculpting, but then I am in a small minority. Most people prefer nice figures. A thread below (and many other threads) mention the hobby started or developed due to movies. Glamourous units are more likely to be well-received as a gift to outsiders of the hobby, than obscure units. If we like it or not, the vast majority of people's knowledge in military history is limited to what they saw on a screen.
I made my suggestions only because I trust Strelets' commitment to accuracy. And I want them to produce sets that sell well.


Re: Re: Your advise is required


Basically, legionary and Praetorian battle dress, (arms, armour and equipment) was the same. Shield-blazons certainly differed, crest and tunic colours perhaps but rather not, shield types occasionally, but not necessarily. Most probably, everything was of a better quality and more luxuriously decorated than with the legionary's outfit. Clearly, we have to say farewell to the Hollywood image of both legionaries and Praetorians, so I see no reason why to produce a set whose historical accuracy would be nil.
The relief you referred to is definitely not Augustan, but was once thought to be early 2nd century AD, and is now considered by some part of a lost monument dated to the reign of Claudius (mid-1st century AD). The soldiers portayed are quite clearly high ranking Praetorian officers and guardsmen in what has been considered parade dress, not battle dress. Anyway, the relief has been heavily restored in modern times, especially the figures in the foreground, so there is now way to say how these figures originally looked like.

I can't remember to have read about a unit of Roman clibanarii raised in AD 69. Could you tell us which unit you have in mind?

Best regards

Re: Re: Re: Your advise is required

I can't come up with much better than anyone else has. Some superb ideas have been offered here, and you would do well to use some of them.

What came to my mind was...
Carthaginians - They've been done pretty much, so you might not want to do that.
Gauls - Some of these have been done before as well.
Celts and Britons - A personal favorite of mine, I was just about to beg for a seems that HaT has one on the way, plus Boudicca!

I was also thinking that the civil wars might be good too, as others said before.

As to other people's suggestions, Jewish rebels and even Yo Yo Ma's Spartacus idea are all great.

There's a lot to do out there, so I'm sure whatever it is, it'll be a pleasing subject.



P.S. We do need Han Chinese badly!

Re: Re: Re: Your advise is required

Dear Pol,

it is good to have you here again.
You know that the basreliefs of Trajan's column showed accurately all the helmets, armor and equipment that were found by archaeology. But before those findings, the accuracy of the column was very much doubted. Why not trust the Louvre basrelief, as it was a contemporary depiction of praetorians - where they augustan, flavian or antonines? Not finding a helmet as depicted on the basrelief does not mean that it did not exist. Considering the entire outfit of those praetorians as parade dress, is only an unfounded assumption. From the 3 figures on the foreground, only one is identifiable as an officer, the one with the knotted sash tie-belt, as it was common with high-ranking officers. Considering all the figures officers, is another illogic assumption.
The painting in the Golden House of Nero, shows a praetorian with silvered and gilded bronze lorica segmentata of Corbridge type, Etrusco-Corinthian crested helmet and greaves. And then there is of course the Cancelleria relief in Rome, for another praetorian.
I don't understand why the historical accuracy of a set depicting those figures on the basreliefs would be nil?! Oh yeah, now I remember you doubting a lot of things.

About the clibanarii from 69 AD, I have to appologize, as I wrote the last sentence in a hurry, called by pressing matters. Well, here is a quote from John Warry, Warfare in the Classical World, p.200: "Fully armoured cavalry had existed in the Roman army since AD 69 when Sarmatian cavalry had been employed by Vespasian." This happened in the Year of the 4 Emperors, when Vespasian with his Danubian legions obtained by force the throne. The first mentioning of a regular roman cataphract unit is under Hadrian (117-138), right?


Re: Re: Re: Re: Your advise is required


"Oh yeah, now I remember you doubting a lot of things."

No reason to get personal, okay?

As for the bas-reliefs, I think your arguments are not conclusive.

Regarding Traian's column, the arms and armour shown there are basically correct but, at the same time, very much stylized. There is a lot of artistic licence and convention in these representations of Roman soldiers. Contrary to what you said, before the progress of archaeology and the many original objects that were found as a result, most scholars thought that the depictions of soldiers on Traian's column and other reliefs were absolutely precise and accurate (just look at the reconstructions of roman soldiers in so many books published before the 70s).
As for the Louvre relief, I did not claim that all the figures were officers. I said that they are high ranking officers and guardsmen in what is thought to be parade dress. Again: this relief was heavily restored, so it's pointless to go on discussing its accuracy here.
I clearly don't approve of your trying to "prove" your views by arguing that what hasn't been found could still have existed, which basically is true, of course, but in itself is no proof that something has actually existed. I could equally well argue the other way round and claim that what has not been found has never existed. Here we are in the realm of beliefs and speculation. Definitely not a serious way of debating controversial issues.
The painting in the Golden House is special in so far as it appears to show a combination of hellenistic-style parade dress and, perhaps, field dress (lorica segmentata), but this outfit clearly was not actual field dress as can be glanced from what Tacitus tells about the battle near Cremona (AD 69) where, apparently, legionaries and Praetorians wore the same armour and were distinguishable only by their shield devices.
The Cancellaria praetorians, led by what appears to be a beneficiarius, are wearing neither parade nor battle dress, but some sort of everyday service dress. Again it's basically the same as that worn by legionaries (tunica, focale, paenula). If some manufacturer decided to make a set of Roman soldiers dressed like this I'd certainly not mind. Useful for both legionaries and praetorians in everyday service uniform.
As for Roman heavy cavalry units I'd say yes, the first appear to have been raised under Hadrian.

Best regards

problem solved: no more need for praetorians!

I would delete now my option1 from the suggestions to Strelets, as I see no more need for praetorians. Alanger is making them. Equipped for battle, with crests and specific shields. Signifer with lionskin.
They seem fine to me, as this is the most probable way they looked on the battlefield.

Re: problem solved: no more need for praetorians!

Strelets could make them in other poses. We still lack sets of Romans who are standing on Parade ground etc.

"The Civil War" by Julius Caesar

One only has to read "The Civil War" by Julius Caesar to get an idea for possible future sets by Strelets.

With the tradition of ongoing struggles within the forces of Rome, you could literally pick which time frame and rival leaders to choose from.

With a thousand years of history, the possibilities are definately endless.

Fighting in the east

Hi guys,

what would you think about a Palmyran army and a corps of Roman Dromedaries?

When I thought about Strelets Minisets I had more the later Imperial fighting guys in mind which are around 150-200 AD than the marching ones.

Most of the wars of this time were fought against the German tribes and in the east.

Of course earlier wars of Rome are still be very interesting. What about the sack of Rome 357 BC when we have Roman hoplites fighting the Celts or a civil war army with Caesar troops against the Augustians (which we can destroy in the Teutoburg forest).

But the main question was what enemies could be done to fight the new Miniset guys. So I have still the Jews and Germans in mind. Maybe another set of Parthians to have more poses beside HAT's excellent set?


Re: Fighting in the east

More Parthians would be nice, especially as I don't subscribe to your view that the HaT Parthians are "excellent" (No, I'm not In Dubio ). My absolutely personal assessment of HaT's Parthians (friendly version): (Golden)


Re: Re: Fighting in the east

There can never be enough Parthians and Sassanids on the market


Re: Your advise is required

The army of Mithridates, King of Pontus if the roman set would suit the time of around 88BC. the roman war against Pontus held hugh importance for the romans, as it carried their empire into asia. Pompeys roman army against Mithridates greek/asian army what more could one ask for?

Re: Re: Your advise is required

The only late-republican set proper for a fight with Mithridates is Italeri 1st century BC. Few poses, gladius scabbard on the right on one pose.
So many roman sets, and only one caesarian

Re: Re: Re: Your advise is required

Sorry, I wanted to say "gladius scabbard on the LEFT (and that is wrong) on one legionary pose"


My vote would be for the Parthians and Isrealites, as
quality sets of the Gauls and Germans have already been made. A civilian set like the medievil england set would be good and why not yet another set of gladiators.

Re: Your advise is required

Why not all of the suggestions so far, slowly but surely over the next few years produce all of Romes's enemies ancients like Napoleonics are always popular. Most collectors, wargamers, painters, love this era, and the figures I believe would be big sellers. I know that looking at the posts on this thread that I would buy most if not all of the figures suggested if they were to be produced.

Re: Your advise is required

Coming from colchester, a set showing Boudica and her army would be brilliant.