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Re: Re: Shield poses

I understand your point, but I don't see any issue with the poses. They are not trying to depict a shield wall or tortoise formation so why does the shield have to be in front? Holding the shield out to the side is a natural pose when advancing or preparing for a fight. Even in combat, the shield would not always be in front while slashing downward. Depending on the "wind-up" you would end up with the shield far off to the side in the follow through.

My complaint about most forward facing shield poses is that they almost all appear entirely defensive with very few that are appealing as offensive in nature. The handful of exceptions being the spear thrust from below and the overhead spear pose.

Anyways, everyone should recognize that these open shield poses have value, but not for every situation. That argument could be made for any pose though.

Re: Re: Re: Shield poses

Can't agree. Maybe a few might have this pose, but all? These guys just don't look like they're getting into the heat of a close quarter battle. Holding the shield this way would leave them wide open to enemy sword and spear thrusts.
Or does this set actually depict the Judean suicide squad from The Life of Brian?

Re: Re: Re: Shield poses

Apart from the Eygptians and the Sherdan Royal gaurds, I've found the rest of the new biblical line from Ceasar a bit dissapointing. The Philistines/Sea peoples are barely an improvemnet on the HaT sets. Furthormore, Goliath wore armour in the Bible. With so many sets on the market and so little cash, I'll buy the Norman/Anlox Saxon/Viking sets from you know who first.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Shield poses

I love the new Strelets minis without a doubt. My only issue with the Caesar Philistines/Sea is that they look far too similar, even the box art. I disagree with you saying they are only a slight improvement over HAT's sea peoples. Those figures were awful. They look more like fantasy orcs than humans. For that reason, I welcome the Caesar versions. On your Goliath point, I wished they would have included such a figure in the same fasion as they did with Sampson. Speaking of which, the Hebrew set leaves a LOT to be desired.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Shield poses

It would be foolish to even atempt to defend HaT's Sea Peoples sculpting, Caesar's Philistines and Sea Peoples, do indeed look like human beings. It is the poses, that I'm not satisfied with. Big round shields imply the use of some sort of sheild wall or phalanx type tactic. One would think that between the two sets, at least one pose would have the man standing behind his shield. Even if it is just for his own peronal pretection in a one on one fight.

I hate to be down on Ceasar, so I will add that I do like both sets, not having seperate weopons and sheilds in a different colored plastic. They look so much better and no glue required

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Shield poses

Yes, Caesar sets are impressive in every other way, but there is a chronic lack of imagination going into the poses design.
I still don't see how a man holding his shield out like a matador's cloak and his sword like a flagpole is any use in a battle. I know there's the old boiling water technique, but that doesn't excuse the lifelessness of the Philistine swordsmen.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Shield poses

I guess the problem here is that if you want well sculpted figures without problems of undercut then the shield has to be separate or moulded away from the body. Large shields were also probably held to the front during the advance towards the enemy since otherwise the enemies bowmen and slingers would destroy these swordsmen before they could come to grips, much as the Egyptians sometimes did with the non-shielded Libyan spearmen, then following up with the heavy infantry to completely finish off the enemy.

So although separate shields is not to everybodies liking I think that they are necessary for a few of the usual 12 poses to show the advancing men just before impact with the enemy line.

Best regards,


Malcolm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Shield poses

Figures with Shields in front has been achieved by other manufactures using two peace molds, and in the 1960s airfix was able to prouce figures with peg and hold shield fits, that actually fit without glue. At least make the weopons the same color as the figures.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Shield poses

Haven't seen the Caesar Sea Peoples etc in the flesh but am currently painting some of their Egyptians and Libyans and got out my Hat Sea Peoples to compare how they looked, and to paint a couple to see what difference that made. Frankly, although I was not one of the people who really moaned about the Hat figures at the time, just being grateful to see some biblicals which were only just kicking off at then, in comparison to the Caesar stuff they are dreadful. Great big lumpy figures that look like deformed giants next to the elegant Caesar Egyptians and Libyans. So I can't agree that the new figs from Caesar are barely better than Hat - they are miles better! (and before anyone tells me I'm a Hat basher - I have to say I am definitely not, possessing many of their fine figures). Presently I feel like throwing the Hat stuff in the bin and replacing with Caesar - it just sticks in my craw to throw figures away and shell out money again.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Shield poses

OK. I might have exagerated a bit. I was just sooooooooooooooooo disapointed with the poses, which I still insist weren't much better. And by no means, was I at all satisfied with Hat's poses. On the bright side of things, I think that the market, can still handel another attempt at The Isrealites, the Phillistines and other Bibilcal and Bronze age subjects.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Shield poses

Caesar figs are technically excellent, but completely lifeless.
PSR criticises Strelets for being "rough round the edges", but at least the poses suggest real soldiers rather than the Caesar statues.
Or have the Phillies been turned to stone by the Hebrew's war God?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Shield poses

Even if Strelets minis seem to have their arms sawn off at the elbows...