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Lets go back to our hobby and leave politics out of it.
I was wondering if there is an increase interest on civilian figures over the ages. Imex has produced really nice sets of pilgrims, pioneers, american indians. Nicolai (how do I get this stuff?) made civilian Romans, Eskimo, etc. Even Strelets has some civilian figures in "Medieval Britain".
I personally would like to see more "generic" unarmed civilian sets for the ancient period, medieval, 1600s, 1700s, Napoleonics, Victorians, WWI & WWII. Reasons are as follows:
1. In diorama, it's always nice to have some civilians mixed with soldiers, either as spectators of a military parade, camp followers, refugees, etc. Even a "totally civilian" diorama would be nice eg. daily life in medieval age with king and court, etc.
2. In my own personal wargame rules, I'd like to add "the civilian factor" into strategic/tactical considerations, eg. in siege scenario, etc. This, I believe, would spice up the game.
I know there are "railway civilians" available in the market, which can also be used for more modern setting. But period figures are quite rare.
If this is a totally stupid idea, please just ignore this post.
Some civilian themes would be intersting modeling subjects in there own right. I would certainly like to see some police, fire and ambulance sets. Construction workers, oil rig crews, and factory workers etc. would also make intersting sets. Lastly I'd like to see some major league sports figures and olympic atheletes
Valdemas is preparing a set of medieval peasants, who can be armed or unarmed as you wish. It is a beggining...
No, it's not a stupid idea. After all, we do need some fillers! In towns like, say, that are being sacked, the populous doesn't just go into their dwellings and shut their doors until the Vandals leave, now do they?
After seeing "Gangs of New York" one group of civilians I would like to see would be horse drawn fire engines. Most big cities of the world had a great fire at one or more times over the ages, so I think there would be wide appeal. Perhaps one of North American type and one of European style.
It's not a stupid idea, but any manufacturer has to be careful in how they make civilian figures. Obviously, there are no problems with civilians who are standing around or generally going about their business (especially for civilian or parade dioramas, or wargaming where reality is not an issue). More problematic would be sets showing dead, dying or otherwise distressed civilians to be mixed in among a military diorama - it might be difficult to make such sets in a tasteful manner, and any sets depicting events from the 20th or 21st centuries (or even earlier) would be bound to spark exactly the types of controversies that have been the subject of locked threads on this Forum. Most problematic would be a set that shows civilians, or captured soldiers, being intentionally abused or killed - I would suspect that most collectors in their right minds would not want to purchase sets like that at all!
This is probably just wishful thinking, but a set for the Blitz of WWII would be interesting. Now clearly that is another example of civilians being targeted in acts of violence, but the bulk of the set could represent the firemen, Air Raid Wardens, ambulance and rescue services etc that were certainly heroic and a positive role model. To keep things equal you could have half the set British and half German (though I am not forgetting all the other countries that suffered air raids). You might have people on stretchers but avoid more distressing models of fatalities altogether. Of course only Strelets and their format could do such a set justice.
I'd like to see a set of innocent civilians that Caesar's urban resistors can terrorize.
Just kidding guys. I had to throw some sarcastic humor into the mix.
Personally, I'm not interested in civilian figures. Sounds too much like model railroading, which I'm not opposed to. I just see it as a different hobby.
I've long thought that sets of civlians would be
great for the Napoleonic Wars (especially Spanish
civilians to flesh-out sieges like Saragossa) and
American Civil War (where, like Spain, there was
considerable guerilla warfare). Multi-purpose sets
for the Napoleonic Wars could include civilans leading
ox-carts, which would be appropriate for both civilian
and military dioramas. There is all kinds of possibilities.
A chap called Pieter (verHulst) posted on this several months ago. Not stupid, a great idea but "penned" before.
see May 1st 2006 and threads.
I suggested Roman and Viking life. These would go with the forts, buildings, boats, etc and have absolutely nothing to do with nasty military things and certainly doing nothing as vicious as executing a fellow human being even though a medieval one (Strelets set 071 for those with short memories).
I like Jon's idea which is superb. Thanks for the positive role model bit. My dad was a fireman in the Blitz.
I remember talking to the great WWII photographer Bert Hardy of Picture Post fame and asking why there were few photos of air raid corpses even in archives. He said that we just didn't do it-it was out of respect for the dead. Respecting the dead, now there is a real argument for not trivialising somebody's death in the form of a miniature polyethylene figure.
Good point, David O'B. I'm sure there are those who for sound tactical reasons would like figures of the civilians that the Mongols drove before them to 'catch the flak' from besieged cities. Or the survivors of recaptured villages that the Red Army exploited to clear minefields (if the Germans hadn't killed them they were obviously traitors and Nazi collaborators...)
So just how can you omit politics from wars ?
Kind of spices up this website now and again and we get a little harmless chuckle at each others views here in the Strelets Toytown Hall debates. Good intervention when needed (i guess we all need a kick in the pants sometimes Dave Hennen included he even monitors himself).
I'd like to see Crimean War Russian civillian farmers and Citizen auxillaries tending to troops helping wounded ,making trenches. Grave diggers etc.
Also more Allied ammunition carriers and mule teams, make shift stretchers and arts.Canteenieres selling water (or grog).Unfortuately many civillians were scavengers (always a few of these on every battlefield). A pillaged baggage wagon train.
Okay I said enougH now its time to get back on my sprue with a hard hat on and wait the fallout.chuckle
I would support these sets especially since my interest are in dioramas.
I would certainly like to see civilians - WWII needs refugees - particularly important for the Western Europe campaign of 1940 as they can have an important effect upon unit movement. Personally, I would like to see them in hard plastic with hands that could hold seperate weapons, so they can be unarmed civilians or resistance (in fact they could also have uses as revolutionaries (eg Spartacists) or nationalists (eg IRA). The other must is the Medieval Civilians, exactly how Valdemar are planning them i.e. seperate weapons or dual purpose pose so they can be non-militant or harvesting. It would be nice to see a reasonable proportion of women in a medieval set (not just posh ones like the Italeri jousting set). The civilians would have so many uses - peasant levy, Ciompi, Jaquerie, Peasant's revolt, sailors etc. So please Valdemar and Caesar can you try and progress the Medieval peasants set as it is desperately needed and, the old Airfix Robin Hood guys are getting tired having been in constant employment for the last forty years - they need a well earned retirement!
Again, everyone ... careful what kinds of WWII civilians you want people making. I recall someone on this forum once fantacizing about civilian victims for German firing squads. Somehow, I just don't think that sort of thing should be encouraged. If a sick soul out there wants to do a diorama based on "The Painted Bird" or "Schindler's List", the least we can do is force them to do conversions!
I couldn't agree more that we need some civilian sets to fill some serious gaps in the 1/72 scale. Civilians and non combat personnel are very important to diorama makers, as well as some wargame scenarios. I think there is definitely a market for them, why do people still buy the old Airfix Robin Hood set after all these years? It isn't because of the great quality of the figures, it's because no one else makes peasant figures.
Civilians can be made to stretch over long periods of time and locals. For instance, how much difference is there between a English peasant from the 9th century and a Russian peasant from the 16th? Not much, and painting and conversions can take care of many of the smaller details. Here are some sets I think would be great additions to the plastic 1/72 scale.
1.Ancient Civilians-Generic enough that they can be used for Rome, Carthage, Greece, etc.
2.Medieval/Renaissance Peasants-Generic enough to be used throughout Europe from the dark ages to the early renaissance.
3. Ancient Sailors-I know there is a set of Roman sailors from Orion, but another set couldn't hurt. It seems Zvezda would benefit most from producing such figures, how else can one fully appreciate their great ancient galleys without them? It seems strange that they would produce the ships and not the figures to go with them.
4.Medieval/Renaissance Sailors-Same issue here with Zvezda, who is supposed to man their Crusader and Hansa cogs? Imex is supposed to be releasing an Explorers set, hopefully it will fill some of the void.
5.Medieval/Renaissance Merchants-This could include carts, beasts of burden, boxes and crates in addition to figures. Again, maybe the Imex Explorer set will cover some of this territory.
6.Bedouin/Arab Caravan-This could be produced to range from ancient to more modern times, and could include tents and other accessories, as well as camels.
Hopefully we will see some of these types of sets produced in the future. Letting the companies know what types of figures we want, will make the chances of such sets ever seeing the light of day much more likely.
I support strongly armed and unarmed civilian sets for the ancient period, medieval, 1600s, 1700s, Napoleonics pecause some civillians took the figth and others didnt. I saw on DVD French 2002 mastrepeace ,,Napoleon´' C.Clavert and J.Malchovits and there were lots on acaisons were people were armed. Naps var in Sapin women with guns etc .So we REALLY need such sets.