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Re: Desert patrol DAK

Roger W
I honestly haven't a clue how weapons were distributed among troops during WW2, you probably know better than me.
But if there are mistakes in this set, it wouldn't surprise me of late.

I suspect Hollywood has a lot to answer for, in regards to overuse of the MP40s.
Roger, in a 10-men infantry section they had 1 SMG at most (but it was mostly reserved for short distance combat for NCOs, not exactly applicable in the desert), 1 LMG (one gunner and one assistant) and the rest with rifles. Platoon HQ was usually one officer with an SMG, an aide/runner, sometimes an AT-rifle or light mortar depending on the time and organization.

Re: Desert patrol DAK

zirrian
Roger W
I honestly haven\'t a clue how weapons were distributed among troops during WW2, you probably know better than me.
But if there are mistakes in this set, it wouldn\'t surprise me of late.

I suspect Hollywood has a lot to answer for, in regards to overuse of the MP40s.
Roger, in a 10-men infantry section they had 1 SMG at most (but it was mostly reserved for short distance combat for NCOs, not exactly applicable in the desert), 1 LMG (one gunner and one assistant) and the rest with rifles. Platoon HQ was usually one officer with an SMG, an aide/runner, sometimes an AT-rifle or light mortar depending on the time and organization.

That weapon list is spot on accurate, but , in combat particularly prolonged combat things change, if you read Frosts book ( 2 Para Arnhem bridge fame) when they were in the desert every two man fox hole had a Bren or MG 34/42 , on the Russian front thousands of Germans swapped their rifles for Russian automatic weapons, the Brits in the Falklands swapped issue FN`s for Argentine selective fire FN`s . I could reel off other examples. What the book says and what is reality in combat are very different.

Re: Desert patrol DAK

...And the Russians used tankovyy desant ('tank rider') infantry battalions in WW2 which were pretty well entirely armed with SMGs.

But the point is well made: Time and time again we see WW2 sets in 1/72 plastic with great sculpting (eg: Caesar) but far too many SMGs relative to rifles, especially in respect of German and US sets.

Re: Desert patrol DAK

In the same book Frost goes on to talk about a Platoon at Arnhem bridge armed to a man with Bren guns, taken from fallen or wounded comrades. My point being that while there is an agreed start point for weapons distribution in any army down to section level, that probably will not remain a constant in combat. On a previous post I talked about a resent read Battalion , Seaforth highlanders in action, well when clearing an enemy position at close quarters, automatic weapons and grenades were the go to, not rifle and bayonet for very obvious reasons. Also whilst this is Africa, Germans and early/mid war, the British army as the war progressed introduced more automatic weapons to infantry, because in fire fights with a force of broadly equal size they were being beaten for sheer rate of fire, so the nco may have once been the only guy in section with a Thompson or Sten , by late 44 half the section may of been armed so.

Re: Desert patrol DAK

Well...only to put things clearer...
It is true that squads or einheits of 10 men used to have a nco with MP40 per section...in infantry divisions and the beggining of the war but...
No infantry divisions in DAK that was a panzer korps ( panzergrenadiere as paratroopers had a bigger amount of this weapon)
Even infantry divisions used mire and more MP40s as the war advanced, as the KSTN tables reveal
Said al this...I do not want to start and endless war...there is historical reasons to make happy to Alan and the rest too!!!
Caesar was not so wrong, because there is not diference between the infantry uniform and the panzergrenadier's one...only the waffen farbe
Personally I love jackboots and MP40s, wich many of you call despectively "Hollywood germans" but have no problems with more Mausers so I can understand both sides Revell's Panzergrenadiers is one of my favourite sets, but curiously they would have been called: Pure 1940 german infantry not panzergreanadiers for reasons exposed before...
Well football:
The same...I love English football, they had done an incredible eurocup, the best two weeks of my life were my holidays in London 1996..was a wonderful and romantic city and most of the people, polite and very nice
I am very influenced by English culture and I love their music the most...Yes, Oldfield,Genesis and a long etc
But Italy? Well Italy is Excelence, beauty, historically fascinating and culturally delicious...Battiato, Carra, Rome, Cinquecento, Cuatrcento, Leonardo, Miguel Angel...and football...very very good ones so as we say in Spain
Tengo el corazón partido

Re: Desert patrol DAK

I would rather Strelets concentrated on filling in some of the obvious gaps for the North African campaign such as Italian (Libyan) Askari, Italian Infantry in Sun helmets and Vichy French troops rather than more German sets.
Yes far too many MP38/40 in this set but all manufacturers apart from Airfix made this mistake.

Re: Desert patrol DAK

Alan Buckingam
In the same book Frost goes on to talk about a Platoon at Arnhem bridge armed to a man with Bren guns, taken from fallen or wounded comrades. My point being that while there is an agreed start point for weapons distribution in any army down to section level, that probably will not remain a constant in combat. On a previous post I talked about a resent read Battalion , Seaforth highlanders in action, well when clearing an enemy position at close quarters, automatic weapons and grenades were the go to, not rifle and bayonet for very obvious reasons. Also whilst this is Africa, Germans and early/mid war, the British army as the war progressed introduced more automatic weapons to infantry, because in fire fights with a force of broadly equal size they were being beaten for sheer rate of fire, so the nco may have once been the only guy in section with a Thompson or Sten , by late 44 half the section may of been armed so.
No arguments here Alan, but as these are not British paras in '44, but German infantry in '42 or so, there's really no point of all the SMGs. Soldiers got those weapons because they were needed in close quarter combat. The desert was characterized by long range encounters, and soldiers are usually clever in the way that they get what they can use, which is in this case a nice handy Kar98k.