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Re: After Easter Eggs

Now, let's face it.
If Russians were against Hitler's Germany, alone, then (I am sure of this) Soviets would have been defeated.
Without RAF and British navy and the U.S. lend-lease act, Soviet Union was near to collapse when Germans were before Moscow, and collapse would have been the outcome...
So, enough is enough about Stalingrad. Yes a great victory, but this was a necessary but not a sufficient condition...
Not to mention Russians contribution in WWI...

Re: After Easter Eggs

I come from Lincolnshire and 617sqn has the 'freedom of my home town'. Worth looking up what 617 squadron actually achieved in its history the dams mission is only one of many activities. - taking the trouble to look up or even better go to Woodhall Spa and see their memorial. Destruction V1 and V2 , pathfinders, U-boat pens and the Tirpitz were only some of their activities.

Yes the many revisionist historians put down bomber command and 617 as terrorists but history has always played fast and loose with the facts by focusing on some bit and ignoring others ie 1939- 1941 when the Soviet Union actively worked with the Third Reich to destroy Poland (and destroyed its officer class).

It should never be forgotten that the civilians and the armed forces of the USSR paid a heavy price during the invasion of their country by trusting Herr Hitler. Our politicians need to work harder to see that such events never happen again.

Re: After Easter Eggs

I completely agree

Re: After Easter Eggs

I don’t think so even if Moscow was taken by germans they wouldn’t get too far .Napoleon got into moskov in 1812 but if your army doesn’t have winter clothes then your army will not fight for long time, airports will not be taken care of and supplies will not reach troops in enemy territory. Winter was hard for germany but so was for red army too but they got good winter clothing. Plus red army asked for b-24 and b 17 bombers and they never received them.. us lend- lease act helped significantly shortened war significantly. Roosevelt knew that if Britain falls and soviet union too then all europe would be lost and usa could be next as hitler supported japan. Dont forget that Soviet union still was making good tanks t-34 and they moved production far east. Germans copied their mortars ,panthers and king tigers were influenced by soviets tanks, don’t forget about Zhukov and his army when they came back with excellent equipment waiting near Chinese border for Japanese to attack but as soon as they found out that attack will not come they returned... plus Usa gave more help to British,Britain got 3 times more then Soviet Union during whole war. And it was estimated that Moscow will fall so there was some delay in help that significantly changed after germans were stoped at Moscow...

Re: After Easter Eggs

Mr Pavol,

you have a very good point of view, and I agree in the 90% of your analysis!!
Surely soviets had carried out the most greater effort at the war against the nazi's Germany, there is no doubt about it.
But Britain and the Commonwealth were supplying, all over the war period, every resistance group in Europe and gave vast numbers of equipment to the USSR (the worth of aircraft engines only, was about 1,1bn British pounds). They also carried out the task of delivering the goods, by numerous convoys and great losses, engaging the whole German navy plus they (with Americans) bombed every industrial city and town in the third Reich and the occupied Europe.
And Moscow, in 1941, was the communication and transportation centre of the entire Soviet Union, and the communist capital of course. Too big to be lost, by my opinion.
In Napoleonic wars, Moscow was just a great city (Saint Petersburg was the capital).
And in 1941, Leningrad was already under siege...
And Napoleon's great enemy (as Hitler's till 1941) was, who else? The British empire!!!

But I still must say that I may be wrong. Who knows with the "ifs" in history...
I fully respect your opinion and I thank you for our little discussion!!!

Re: After Easter Eggs

Hi Marios .yes just like in ww2 in napoleonic wars British were main enemy of Napoleon. If you compare French army of napoleonic war they were sort of like German blitzkreig in ww ii. Moving faster then enemies. French artillery of napoleonic wars had cannons 25% lighter then their opponents so that contributed greatly to speed ov movement. British natiion did the best they could when they focused more on the navy as island country.and in ww 2 plus on air forces. RAF did excellent job against german Luftwaffe while outnumbered.when first accidental bombing of london happened and British retaliated by unexpectedly bombing raid on berlin this paradoxically benefited to RAF as angered hitler gave orders for bombing london and other british shifting from attacking british air fields, air fighters command installations to cities and that relived pressure on RAF. In my opinion many so called minor first battles were more important then we think. For Hitlers Germany it was in spain legion condor who encountered Russian supplied aircrafts and tanks to republicans.also very important was using first time 88mm flak 16 anti aircraft artillery guns against republicans tanks&fortifications with direct . Yes speaking of delivering goods 7% were lost due to loss. I thank you too for interesting discussion :-) nobody can’t know everything that is why we learn from each other.... I also like Churchill of his iron leadership. And I nearly forgot hitler by writing his book mein kampf let others know what he is going to do ahead of time. Stalin has read it it was translated to him so sooner or later he would attack hitlers garmany. Soviet-germany pakt was only made for 2 reason for hitler offense on west and divide poland for Stalin get time to modernize soviet after winter war with Finland he realized that much needs to be done.... I agree, yes we can’t be sure with if’s we can only try calculating... after all even now always something new is discovered so many if’s. :grinning: