Hi all, and a Happy New Year. My son and I are looking to join and race in the 2015 series. We are considering buying the Vision V85 advertised on here. The car is based outside the UK so viewing is difficult. Other than Mr Gibson would anyone else have info on this chassis. From the pictures I have its clear there are a lot of RT3 parts and a good XE engine, but its still 30 years old...... Where could I go to have the frame re-built etc. Help and advice most welcome. We would run it as a Proto if its acceptable.
Chris.

Hello Chris and a Happy New Year to you and your son, and a very warm welcome to the family of Clubmans. If you make contact with father and son team, Jamie and Alex Champkin, who run a very successful Vision with Paul Gibson's help, they will tell you everything you need to know. One of our other front runners, Chris (Wyd) Pickering, is also building a Vision for this years's championship. I'll forward their contact details by email to you. Kind regards, Chris Hart.

Hi Chris,altho im no expert on the rules and regs only just coming back into clubmans fraternity this year myself,a couple of things spring to mind,the car is listed as having 275 bhp,proto regs state 240 bhp at the flywheel,as its in hillclimb spec the tyres wont be suitable so new/used slicks & wets,possible spring rates will need changing for the circuits all this on top of the purchase price makes it to my mind a bit pricey ,only my opinions but hope it helps a bit and im sure someone with more knowledge than me will be along soon with more help/ideas

regards
John

Dear Chris,

Looking forward to see you join us in Clubmans with that car! Downtune the engine is probably very easy to do and would make the engine more reliable. In PROTO tyres is no issue as still open to choose.
Last year i bought a gearbox from Tim and all went very smooth and good quality!
If the car is as good as the gearbox i bought it's for sure a very good buy!

Alex Champkin races the Vision and i believe WYD will do also this year, they know where to get the stuff needed.
Also Gareth has a chassis for sale, not sure what year.
I agree it won't be as easy as with the Mallock's but if the car suits you i see no reason not getting it back to our series.

Looking forward to meet on track!

Wows what a warm reception, thank you. Great help and advice. My son and I are really looking forward to racing with you this year, hopefully with the Vision. De-tuned etc. Running on Hankook seeing we live in walking distance to Mr Tyre and Chris P.

Dear Onno, the Vision chassis that Gareth used to have is not for sale!!!!

Ahh very good! So that's your project now! So much good news lately...

Thanks everyone for your help and advice, after receiving a copy of a report posted on the net we have decided to look elsewhere for a car.

"Tim Tulie for example, there he was, scrunched up against the granite walls in the esses with his Vision (or what’s left of it) but he had to be at the boat by 5. Not a problem, marshals, competitors and friends manhandled the wreckage onto a trailer for him and no doubt when he returns it will be sitting comfortably in his workshop awaiting his long winter nights of rebuilding"

Pity really.
Thanks again.
Chris.

Some good cars available at decent money,on the register for sale page and Mallocks website unless you specifically want Vision,WYD's Mallock being a prime example

Evening All,

I would just like to add and clear the air, yes the car has been in a minor accident where I caught some cobble stones on the l/h side which damaged 2 wheel rims and front nose and wing! Hardly a write off like the report made it sound, unfortunately as always the reporters like to 'add their piece'

For anyone who may want to know I had the car all ok and racing again in under 2 weeks at an event in alderney in September 2013 where I broke the hillclimb record, not bad from a car that's almost 30 years old! The results of that event can be found on the guernsey kart and motor club.

Reason for the sale is due to circumstances changing, I am looking to go the route of a single seater but not really fussed either way.

Happy new year to you all

Tim

Hi John, thanks for that, we had hoped to get a car with I.R.S, as I feel with the Hankook's, being able to adjust the geometry will give a boost to performance. Hence why I suspect that the Vision has become a popular choice at the moment. I think my son and I will sit it out for awhile in the hope of a suitable car coming along. But I have to say WKD's Mallock does seem to be a very good option indeed. Thanks for the advice though, always welcome.
Chris

We recently back-to-back tested our existing Dunlop cross ply to Hankook's radial on a fixed axle and IRS car with two well matched race-winning drivers. Surprisingly, and as the Hankook man had told us, the rear-cambered IRS car had no advantage on the radials. In fact the IRS car (a Vision) had to reduce rear camber to optimise set-up, whilst the Mallock Mk27 was slightly faster on the radials throughout the tests. This will obviously get skewed slightly according to driver ability, set-up, track conditions, but the concerns of the radials having an advantage with several degrees of rear camber evaporated.

There is a thread headed Hankook on this page on November 12th.

There is a good IRS car for sale on this site; it's Jamie's Phantom but he also crashed it and completely rebuilt the car last year. I don't think you should be to critical about crashes in the past, if cars were repaired good mostly they get better as newer tubes are being used and welding tools have become better. The biggest problem is when you can't judge the chassis repairs by yourself. If you know what to look at there won't be any problem. Ask any of the Clubmans racers and i don't think a lot can say their car/chassis never has been repaired thru the years.

I bought a Mallock mk27 with the original chassis tubes but they had so many holes in it from the poprivets that i decided to weld them as it had weakened the chassis, some tubes were so bad i had to replace them. From that moment i decided to put some extra tubing to get a more rigid chassis. Now i'm very happy with the car but it took some time to get it right.

Good luck with the search.

Hello again,
I have to say the "Clubmans" family is truly incredible, I have been simply stunned by the level of support, advice and friendship there has been on here and in my e-mail box. You all are a true credit to club motorsport. So glad we decided to join your ranks

Chris: Thanks for the thoughts etc. I had read the thread(s) on the tyres. One point of course comes to mind, why is WKD building a Vision??

As for the V85, in 30 of motorsport chassis damage is to be expected, and I had planned a full ground-up build, budgeted for a full chassis re-work by a close friend locally. It was more the fact Tim didn't make it clear there was this report/crash, plus the lack of recent, clear and detailed photos. If the car had been on the mainland it could well be in my workshop now, in bits!!!

Onno: I have been kindly contacted by Jamie and as we live very close I plan to see him as soon as possible.

Thanks again to all of you who have made us feel so very welcome.

Chris

Hi Chris

Glad to hear you are joining our formula you will be wowed by the lap times these very cheap cars can do, take a look here at page 64

http://www.750mc.co.uk/ugc-1/1/41/0/ed9ba163-adff-456b-9445-336dc6d6a8c5.pdf

the best laps in performance order from the Birkett race this year, lots of Clubmans cars beating £40k+ cars like radicals, take a look at position 7th .

Regarding my Vision I have always wanted to build a car up from the ground with my own designs, ideas and body work something that will hopefully work and be one of a kind, I have been building this Vision for the past 2 years way before the announcement that Dunlop were going to stop production of the cross ply tyres.

There is no worry about Radials on solid axle cars, again if I can refer you to the Birkett results, have a look at page 77 team 17 the Hart attacks, Alex and I were both on the Hankook tyres my car being solid axle and his IRS. Ignore my 1st stint as I was behind the safety for the whole time till I ran out of battery volts

Please feel free to give me a ring on 07782263515 for a chat about the Mallock, I keep it at my workshop in Warwick and I will be here every weekend for the next 3 months working on the Vision so if you fancy popping in for a nosy you are more than welcome to.

Regards
WYD

Hello WYD,
Thanks for yet another welcome We did meet earlier this year, Thruxton I think?? Anyway done 'all' the research after seeing your car for sale. Like the 'banner', anyway you do have a quick car period. Be a fool if I didn't come and see etc. I will give you a call to set a time.
Chris.

I want to thank all the people who have been in touch with me offering help and advice it really has been incredible. in so many ways.
My son and I have mulled over the various options which have come up and we are both of a mind to continue with the hunt for a suitable Vision.

Sorry Jamie and WKD, I really do feel the rear suspension of the Vision does allow a greater depth for development. I/we don't have a budget to get it wrong, so the car we purchase now will have to last some while.

It has been interesting to get views from so many people, each have their "own" vested interest, but the real common thread is the move towards the Vision chassis, and I do have to agree, even with the camber restrictions which are in place to protect the Mallock owners.
I have no doubt the Hankook tyre will be faster like for like with the Dunlops, and even though certain quarters think that in 2016 there will be "New" Dunlop tyres to be had I suspect the Hankook's are here to stay.

So the hunt goes on.

Does anyone know if the Gibson's are about, tried e-mailing them but with no reply.

Thanks.
Chris.

Speak to Dan Gibson (Paul's son), or Chris Beck at: GibsonMotorsport

Thanks Chris, will do.

Hi Tim

I have been Looking at the pictures supplied to me of this car and im slightly concerned that its not a V85 but actually a V83 or V84 car. Could you please send me as much info as you have about the history of the car as i think it may be Allan Kelly's car but as i say im not sure.


Speak soon


Dan

Andy - you are correct - there will be no camber restriction in the 2015 regs.

There won't be a clause regarding it either. What we agreed at the Drivers Meeting was that if experience suggested that such a change was necessary then we would introduce it by consent of the drivers. This was unanimously agreed.

However, experience to date tells us this is unlikely to be needed.

Hi,
Thanks for explaining about the "camber" issue. I was led to believe this was an actual rule.
But still not convinced about the whole I.R.S. issue. Experience tells me to stick with it and the Vision, which we appear to be sorted with. Very glad we didn't get the "V85", thank god for all the clubmans help and experience.

Might even run "A" Class if the rules change!!