Welcome to the Strelets Forum.
Please feel free to discuss any aspect of 1/72 scale plastic figures, not simply Strelets.
If you have any questions about our products then we will answer them here.
I'm not sure HaTs release of new sets can even be defined as a "trickle"! At least they finally got around to releasing their MAC Austrians in helmets. Although they are below the quality Hat used to churn out.
I do however think that the eliminating of free speech and people seeing their posts removed for the smallest little criticism made people get fed up too. Nobody wants to see their speech & beliefs curtailed as if part of some far left or far right dictatorship.
The fact that its HaT & only HaT & their sets must be the best thing since sliced bread doesnt really help!!
If that happens here, this forum will go the same way. If that is combined with lower standards creeping into what sets are released, it will only go one way.....regardless of how much goodwill is supplied.
Its happened before......it can happen again.
The whole reason why a few of us are so vocal is because we do care about the company & its future, in our own way. We can see warning signs that have appeared before in companies who have long fallen. Call it tough love if you want. But just offering blind praise, simply because a company is the last one standing, will help nobody in the end...the customer due to mistakes repeating & quality falling, or the business, due to mistakes not learned (if nobody mentions them...how could they?!), poorer quality of sets & thus drop in sales.
No money....no company.
Thank you Strelets for the hours of enjoyment you have brought us with the many new sets you continue to produce.
The lively discussion on this forum is good and keeps the hobby alive.
However, I am sorry that some of us have forgotten that you asked us not to discuss HaT products on this forum.
Sandy
That is true Sandy & for my part I am sorry for mentioning the "H" word.
Kind of forgot about it in the midst of the debate.
I suppose the other brand got brought up as being pertinent to the discussion. But either way, from here on, I will try to remember to refer to them as the "other" company.
Maybe there could be something added to the forums program that blocks the name? Like it does a swear word?
However I dont think there is a problem mentioning another brands sets, after all it does say at the top of the forum to "Please feel free to discuss any aspect of 1/72 scale plastic figures, not simply Strelets".
Hat are unlikely to rise again like a Phoenix from the flames ,and that is for me at least very sad ,the financial crisis of 2007/8 has seen to that. But they still turn out a few new sets from time to time all be it usually from masters we have seen for many years. Donald has hit the nail on the head, what`s to talk about there ? well if nothing is happening, not a lot. Hat will be hurting about how things have turned out and as anyone who has been hurt knows the last thing you need is someone coming along and rubbing salt in an open wound. So if people are regularly negative, to the point it out ways any positive contributions, why would anyone want to listen to it?. What needs to be remembered is behind the brand is one human being ,who is even more passionate about toy soldiers than you or me, that is why that person started the company ,be that Strelets , Hat, or most of the others we find listed on PSR. Historically I was probably to most active poster on the old Hat forum, and like here a keen observer of what goes on, I don`t really understand the venom Hat have thrown at them, why not the other forty odd plastic 1/72 manufacturers who are dormant or vanished or low activity ? ,it is perhaps because they have a forum and do listen ,or maybe they crave more from Hat and think bad mouthing them is the way to get it ?, as I said it makes no sense and never has.
I would venture to say that Hat collapsed after being incorporated in Pacific Coast and production transferred to China. The best Hat sets, the French light infantry and the Britisch Peninsular sets have been the highlight of Hat. Few sets compare to them. Since then plastic soldier production seems to have been banned from the company's top activities to what appears to have become an afterthought. The output of Austrians and British Peninsular cavalry being the worst sets I have seen.
I appreciate Strelets all the more and some of their sets are top of the class. If the company heeds advice from their clients and take note of their comments, being positive or negative and acts upon it, it can only go from strength to strength. What's wrong with that? We can all benefit from it.
Chaps,
I was involved in a discussion like this a while ago, and Mr. Strelets was not happy. Whilst I agree with many of the sentiments shared, I do not wish to spoil the mood of the upcoming Friday teasers by Mr. Strelets because he is (again) reading this somewhat negative discussion of a competitor "Le Chapeau" on the Strelets forum.
Cheers,
Alan, lets think of some reasons why HaT may not get the praise it once did. These are not my own personal views, howeber I may share some of them, but some I have noticed here and there, including on Bennos.
1-As Thomas said, production is completely based in China. I dont know if the company itself is Chinese or manufacture was just outsourced to take advantage of cheap labour, fact is the quality of the product & abilty to carry out job specifications has dropped massively since it has been completely based there. The managers there dont seem to care about the end product.....which comes to point 2.
2- If you are responsible for outsourcing your manufacture, its on you to make sure they understand the job & do the job properly. Dont just accept whatever they churn out. Make them do it again. If thats not possible, take the contract away from them & find someone else. That could be somewhere closer to home, or another country. Or even simply a different factory.
3-Starting a crowdfunder, holding on to the money for years, to release the sets in the wrong scale, then trying again only to make people wait even longer, then finally release the sets, only with awful scaling and moulding, is not a particularly good bit of business!!
4- Operating a forum like its North Korea isnt a great move. Kind of alienates people that.
5-Admin never gives clear sensible answers. They also never seem to know what is going on at shop floor level.....who the hell is running the company?!!
I agree it is highly unlikely that HaT will rise from the ashes again...not under the current managment anyway. That is a huge shame as I too liked a good many of HaTs sets from a while back. They could of provided some healthy competition, which can only be a good thing...for customers & for motivating companys.
However, HaTs destiny is in their own hands. If they want to try & regain some of their former glory, then make changes. Get the products made better & within a sensible timescale. If that means shifting production elsewhere....do it, be proactive!
If its now in the ownership of someone new who couldnt care less about figures, well thats the end of the company basically & also if you were the passionate previous owner, handing it over was a silly thing to do. However, i'm sure money exchanged hands.
Baratheon is indeed correct, the mention of this company should be toned down now. Although it does perhaps offer an insight for Strelets as to an example to learn from & to certainly not follow.
Roger, in 2007/8 Hat nearly were gone forever, they exist today because the Chinese factory that made them on Hats behalf, bought Hat out rather than lose what was a good chunk of their business (they after all posses all/most of the moulds anyway) they are a injection moulded plastics business, not an enthusiastic hobbyist who has turned that hobby in to a business. They function at a basic level ,they are not toy soldier enthusiasts. The prolific Hat most of us loved pre 2007 has gone, and is not coming back, and no amount of moaning is going to change that. The crowdfunded projects were a disaster and being the biggest spender on the first unmarried Zulu`s had good reason to be more disappointed than most, but it was the only way unmarried Zulu`s were going to come to market, so despite all the many issues ,it was worth it, but it was the last such project from Hat I supported. If you think, getting sizing right etc is so easy ,try it, but here is a tip, check PSR first and see the height variation across all manufacturers for 1/72 ,they don`t just vary by brand, they vary a lot within brand, if it is as easy as you say why does everyone find it so hard ?. The forums are run at the hosts expense, if you go to someone's house and are rude/ungrateful/ destructive you would expect to be asked to leave by the host , so to with forums, if all you do is negative why would they or anyone want to pay to listen to it ? it is about balance, you are dealing with people not robots . Every manufacturer would like an easy process just like the fantasy one you suggest ,the real world is not like that, people change jobs, get ill, things get lost, meaning gets lost in translation, like how is your Mandarin ? and a thousand other unforeseen issues. Straight answers anyone who has worked in an international supply chain will tell you that is impossible , too many variables. We would all like Hat and others to be better and more prolific, it`s time most just accepted the reality of 2021. I will add that most of the moderators on the Hat forum, the ones that delete posts, well they are also your peers here, not some north Korean mini dictator but a group of fellow enthusiasts who operate with a specific remit, none of whom speak Mandarin or Chinese in any form.
At Alan
"The forums are run at the hosts expense, if you go to someone's house and are rude/ungrateful/ destructive you would expect to be asked to leave by the host , so to with forums, if all you do is negative why would they or anyone want to pay to listen to it. "
I hear what you say, however are fora not intended to exchange ideas, point out areas of improvement, exchange views? In short don't the fora have a function, if not to say offer the only way manufacturers and clients can exchange ideas views etcetera. If I were to be a manufacturer, I would rather see it as an asset, not a hindrance. Let's be fair, I have seen a lot of praise for Strelets as well on this site and rightly so. Most sets are fantastic, but some are flawed. This forum is one way to assist the manufacturer in pointing it out, assuming they want to continue to deliver top quality as they have been doing for the past years.
Alan dont shoot the messenger.
You wanted to know why there was this anti-HaT feeling, I gave you some examples that I have seen dotted around the forums. I may not of been the originator of those thoughts, but yes some I do share as many others do.
As for the forum itself, yes maybe there are some here that are moderators. But the feelings about how that forum is these days are widely known. I personally wouldnt want to be a moderator if that was what I had to do. I favour everybody being allowed to express their views, good or bad. Taking action against the abusive, insulting type individuals we have seen on here just recently picking on Donald & James.
I am not being negative on certain sets for the hell of it. I am not one of our trolling friends like Mr Kunz!!
Only when there is reason to, have I given a set a thumbs down. If that has happened a lot lately....well that tells its own story.
Maybe the process of producing a set of figures is a difficult one, but HaT managed well enough once before. Even the amount of sets flying out from Strelets suggest they must of got the hang of it!! Yes its 2021, there is more information for a manufacturer to access at their fingertips than ever before.
HaT used to make great sets with proper sizing. Strelets have been able to make nicely sculpted, well thought out and researched sets. That wasnt fantasy, that was the real world.
I have thoroughly enjoyed those sets & continue to purchase them today....cant get much better praise than that if you make figures. But some new sets have not been to the same standard for either company. HaT, its to be expected of these days unfortunately, but Strelets up until recent have been fine.
Thus now being vocal. Its alarming to see a sudden lack of even basic accuracy at times. Sculpting in the main has continued to be excellent. But the whole reason many of us buy the figures is for that accurate representation. If it dissappears, so does the reason for buying. If that happens, there will be a drop in sales. If that happens there will be less money to invest in more new sets.....and so on. Trying to nip it in the bud now, is in fact a way of trying to make sure Strelets are still making sets further down the line.
Its too late for HaT, but not for Strelets.
I want to be singing the praises of Strelets, not nagging them. I dont get some sort of kick out of being negative. I just want them back to making great sets. Recent ones have not been, hence some of us giving a negative feedback.
And Alan I am sure you have been negative about sets that have been more within your realms of interest.
What was it? "Grrrrr ,no ammo or number two for the vickers mmg , other than that very good, but this no number two for machine guns has to stop it`s exasperatingly frustrating and presents us the buyer with a problem, and I want is solutions for my money not a headache."
When it affects those eras of most interest to us, most of us have had something to say. Its then not right to attack someone who finds problems with sets for their own favourite era.
I think you chaps have missed the point, pacific coast company make for example, plastic plates today, plastic buckets tomorrow etc ,for a few days a year they put plastic toy soldier moulds in the mould machine, once that short run is done it may be plastic egg cups , they are not and never will be toy soldier enthusiasts, Hat is a very small bit of what they do, and it just another inanimate object to be moulded in plastic ,no different to kids plastic beach spade. If you want to work yourselves up to a froth being frustrated with them it`s your time, just remember what ever you write they don`t read, they don`t speak English.
Not worked up at all here Alan, certainly not frothy!! My main fear is watching Strelets repeat some of HaTs mistakes.
HaT are more or less gone, it wouldnt surprise me to see even the back catalogue of sets finally cease production within the next few years. As I said before, its actually a shame. HaT is unlikely to return, unless that arm of their business is bought out from them. Maybe one day that will happen, but I doubt it...unless one of us wins big on the lottery!!!
I have no idea how much their moulds and stuff would be worth. If Pacific company isnt that interested maybe they would sell for the right price?
Italeri obviously took over a good amount of Esci's old sets. So its happened before. HaT themselves also used to make some of Airfix's old sets too.
Perhaps Strelets could one day put a bid in?!!!!
Roger , I am told the moulds (steel) weigh a lot, each one, and there are 300 + the cost of moving them would be astronomical , and no doubt why the buyer of Hat was the factory where they were stored, had Hat gone under they would have probably ended up with them anyway.
Yeah thats true I suppose.
Chances of someone coming along & snapping that lot up are very slim indeed.
Well said Cappy
I never will forget the guy who complained and said he wasn't going to buy any of a WSS Cavalry set because the jacket only had three buttons instead of four.
Yes that is a tad extreme!!
Right - Firstly I think it is wise of a manufacturer to seek input from potential customers but a) There is little point doing that at a stage in the process where mistakes cannot be rectified and b) Comments need to be taken with a pinch of salt - critics may be wrong.
Secondly I think with Strelets there is a certain amount of frustration of late because people can see the potential in these sets and they WANT to buy them but they see flaws that prevent that set from being what they want - like a topping they dislike on teh perfect pizza.
With the other company I think they undermined their profitability by pandering to enthusiasts on their forum. The major cost in the plastic manufacturing process is tooling the moulds so putting that investment into sets that lack wide appeal or making three sets where before there would have been one is going to eat into profits, especially as someone that wanted a unit marching for example now only needs one set whereas before they would have needed three. MAC was great for the consumer; less so for the manufacturer I suspect.
Good post Philip.
Thats the crux of the matter. We do indeed see the potential, plus what has come before, or in another range & when a set we really want appears, but not to the same standard, its a big letdown. If it happens frequently, it then makes someone wonder if the brand suits their needs now...for that particular era at least. Then you end up with people possibly taking their money elsewhere.....not great for a business. Hence why some of us are more vocal....we see the water breaking on rocks ahead & we hope to steer the ship clear of them.
Pizza analogy is a good one! Anchovies.....Pineapple....urgh 😝.
Darn it now I want a pizza!!
I just think Strelets is the modern Airfix/Matchbox/Atlantic
Without their interest and original topics the hobby wouldn't be where it is today. It doesn't bother me when they make the odd mistake, practice makes perfect and if they stay around long enough, they'll only get better and better.
I appreciate what you've all said and take the points made in the spirit they were made in.
I don't think any other company really has a clue when it comes to offering enthusiasts a place to voice their opinions, otherwise they'd all have active forums.
I don't really buy anything other than Strelets anymore, sure the odd niche set from others but the bulk of my collecting and collection is Strelets - I've stuck with them from the very start and look at the quality and quantity we get now!
Awesome company
respects to all
Al
Just my take on what has been said. For figures Strelets is now the Main (only) company that I buy from. As I have said before the quality of Strelets sets have improved 10 fold from what they were. The forum is great the fact they let you post other companies new releases is wonderful. Also I feel that Strelets use the views in the forum to help them to make figures the the customers want and will buy. I have not seen a bad set from Strelets for years. So I take my hat off for you Mr Strelets well done and keep up the fantasic work.
Cappy, I know this won't matter to you {:-)) .....but I couldn't agree with you more. Watching the way in which Strelets have improved their miniatures has been such a wonderful experience, and they are always very responsive to comments, and considerate towards their customers and the participants of this forum. A long time ago now, I sent an email to them asking why a series of Sreltsy figures had not been produced....the masters of them that they had shared were very unique. I got a reply that the figures were not good enough. During our brief discussion, the writer said that their figures were not up to some of the other companies output, that they were too chunky looking. I told them that I loved that about them, that they had a special look of their own that I always recognized. I was struck by the candor of their own self evaluation. I have been a Strelets fan ever since. Of course I admit to having a soft spot for the Airfix figures that I first had as a boy. I read the criticism of the early sets, as well as of the present sets, and I often am surprised at the very negative tone in which it comes across. I too appreciate the efforts that these companies make. We are truly in a golden age for people who grew up with a passion for this scale of historics. Thank goodness that there are outfits like this one who share that passion.
Dear Strelets Team,
Why I buy your sets is because "I can enjoy them right out of the box", you care about Color Quality and they are historically appropriate. I also especially love the Casualty poses. Both horses and men. I use your Crimean falling horses for other uses also. Your figures have very accurate details. I love your FFL and Arabs Ranges.
Do please darken the Blue for the FFL like the original Camelry Patrol set. The most recent FFL are so light I can't see the fantastic details. Color quality of your figures right out of the box is so important! I really am a big fan of your Crimean Range for all of the reasons I mention. Even Airfix has re-run their US Cavalry in 3 colors, and also AWI, WWI, FFL, Waterloo and 8th Army in more realistic colors which I have bought all of these new colors over the decades. And I will continue to buy Strelets sets because of your fine attention to colors, casualty details and poses and realism for sets right out of the box!
Thank you for listening Strelets Team! :camel: :palm_tree: :earth_africa: :earth_asia:
Well said, Cappy,
I'm a bit late to the conversation but I add my gratitude to Strelets AND its competitors for the sacrifices, labor, and risk they take to produce those little bits of plastic we love so much. Having had an "inside" look or two at what it takes for those little guys to be produced as well as the care and effort that goes in to producing a quality product - I've also been privy to the personal disappointment when something goes wrong and the product doesn't turn out right. Sometimes mistakes are discovered so far along in the process that to go back and start over might be economically devastating.
One of the big things I look for when I buy figures of either scale I collect is compatibility. Will the new figures fit with my other figures? I'm looking for accuracy, of course, but I am forgiving to a point. When we were kids and all we had were GIANT "Napoleonics" in French shakos in red and blue plastic we had to make do. Then Airfix came along... Now? We can be picky.
I won't buy a set that doesn't "fit" or has glaring deficiencies that can't be worked around. At 1/72 scale I think there's more flexibility than 1/32. Even then, I'm fairly tolerant of a great deal - to a point.
I've offered input before; oftentimes I'm outvoted. Oh well. It's up to me when the final product comes out if I want to buy it or not. After a point, what's the point?
I think there's a fine line between welcoming constructive input and pleasing the consumers and letting too many cooks spoil the broth; just as there's a fine line between offering constructive suggestions and fault-finding. If either shoe fits...
Finally, thank you Strelets for "upping" your game. I wish you and your competitors well as when you are all "cooking on all burners" we all benefit.
Maybe this is because I am used to the brutality of other comment platforms in the internet age, but in my opinion I think the vast majority of you are decent at providing constructive criticism while at the same time encouraging Strelets in their future endeavors. I naturally hope this tradition continues into the future.
As an individual who grew up in a very historically interested household, I have grown up for years with debates about historical accuracy when it comes to figures, movies, PC games, and the like. For me, I would give an 8 or 9 out of 10 score on average for how Strelets rates compared to all of these medians, which is not bad (as a comparative I would say most post-1990 Hollywood movies with any sort of historical content usually score in the 1 to 5 range). There are a few scruples here and there that I personally think need adjusting, but at the end of the day my Vikings more or less look like Vikings, Romans look like Romans, and so on. They provide inspiration and joy for myself and (hopefully) most of the rest of us on here as well, which to me is the main point. Keeping the memories of these cultures and peoples alive. :grin: