Strelets Forum

Jul 11, 2021 - 8:17PM

84.168.211.41

Re: Arabs in ambush

Minuteman

I can see the value of this set, for instance as part of an Arab Revolt army/diorama, although the rifles appear not to be the SMLE Mk 1.

I would say that was a point in their favour, dont forget these are irregulars...

:wink:

Minuteman

Jul 12, 2021 - 10:58AM

79.77.198.103

Re: Arabs in ambush

ironsides

Minuteman

I can see the value of this set, for instance as part of an Arab Revolt army/diorama, although the rifles appear not to be the SMLE Mk 1.

I would say that was a point in their favour, dont forget these are irregulars...

:wink:

Irregulars maybe. But 4 Vickers machine guns, albeit without ammunition and condensers...most irregular.

Jul 12th, 2021 - 10:58 AM

Jul 12, 2021 - 2:58PM

84.168.211.41

Re: Arabs in ambush

Sure but I'd rather have a set that is mostly usable then one that isnt... how often do you find that you have figures left over from any set?
The Vickers are odd in anycase and like you rightly said there has to be support for it, ammo, transport... its not something an individual can pic up and run around the field with, this is just hollywood...

:wink:

Daniel Erdman

Jul 17, 2021 - 6:28AM

73.175.11.133

Re: Arabs in ambush

Minuteman

Two of the kneeling figures and one of the prone figures look suitable to use as 'loaders' for the Vickers, with minimal modification. This is a better choice of 'potential loaders/number twos' than some other sets. Ammo and the water condenser is easily scratch-built.

I am intrigued that a set that is titled 'Arabs in skirmish' has (presumably) 4 x Vickers MGs, hardly weapons designed for a quick hit and run raid when camels might be the only transport. Indeed, I'd imagine that a weapon such as the Vickers would be something of a rarity in Arab forces, not least because of the problems of lugging enough ammunition and water around to allow it to operate in a sustained fire mode.

I can see the value of this set, for instance as part of an Arab Revolt army/diorama, although the rifles appear not to be the SMLE Mk 1.

But to my eye, a nice set....but not a set that I will need to buy. Too deserty by far, and not nearly enough lace.

Have a good weekend:relaxed:

I am intrigued that a set that is titled 'Arabs in skirmish' has (presumably) 4 x Vickers MGs, hardly weapons designed for a quick hit and run raid when camels might be the only transport. Indeed, I'd imagine that a weapon such as the Vickers would be something of a rarity in Arab forces, not least because of the problems of lugging enough ammunition and water around to allow it to operate in a sustained fire mode.

The title of the set is 'Arabs in Ambush', not "Arabs in Skirmish', and I suspect the Vickers is modeled because of the train ambush scenes in "Lawrence of Arabia" in which indeed a Vickers plays a prominent role once the track is blown and the train is stopped.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vR3FPplcJGg

That film was formative for me and continues to be my favorite. It deserved all seven academy awards, IMO. Peter O'Toole, Omar Sharif, Alec Guinness, Anthony Quinn, Claude Rains, José Ferrer, Arthur Kennedy. David Lean and Sam Spiegel, and the screenplay by one of my favorite dramatists, Robert Bolt. What's not to like?!?

Jul 17th, 2021 - 6:28 AM

Jul 17, 2021 - 11:09AM

91.53.190.57

Re: Arabs in ambush

In that particular scene Lawrence has to personally blow the train up with the plugger hes holding in his hands, dramatic licence you might say... and makes a great scene...
However the detonator used for the explosive was a cut down rifle (TE Lawrence "seven pillars of wisdom" pg192 wordsworth edition) which was set in such a way that when the train passed over it actuated the trigger and ignited the 20lbs of explosives set on the track...

Its a film and a good one , one of my favorites, but I dont take my history from movies, but rather they acts as inspiration to find out more...

The events descibed above in the first attack on the Hejaz railway in Lawrences book would make a great skirmish senario for gamers since it involves relativly small forces, 400 entrenched Turks, 300(800 were promised!) arab irregulars plus Lawrence and support with at least *2 lewis guns and a stokes mortar(*"Lawrence in Arabia" Scott Anderson) and of course a small train etc...

History can be far more impressive then fiction, the train was disabled initially the facilitys damaged and the turkish forces routed with heavy casualties, all for the loss of one man...

:wink:

Daniel Erdman

Jul 17, 2021 - 6:24PM

73.175.11.133

Re: Arabs in ambush

I agree, Ironsides. No way this film (or most others) would be a source of history. In fact, there were lawsuits over historical misrepresentations -- among other things, the way that Allenby was portrayed in his relationship to Lawrence and what he said at the funeral -- completely off base.

Simply making the point that perhaps Strelets got the idea of the Vickers from the film -- never mind that Lawrence wrote that they used Lewis guns! Further, Robert Bolt was never one to let historical fact get in the way of a good story. Witness his portrayal of Thomas More in *A Man for All Seasons*, which goes against most contemporary and later descriptions of the man and his temperament. But another great screenplay and great film.

Ironically, as a young chap when I began to play "Lawrence" with my friends after seeing the movie, I built a machine gun of wood (most of my toys were homemade of wood) that bore little resemblance to a Vickers or a Lewis. In fact, what I tried to imitate was a U.S. M1919 A4 .30 calibre, which is the only machine gun I had ever seen up close at that age -- when watching the local infantry battalion of the Mexican army on parade for the 16th of September. They mounted them in the back of Dodge Power Wagons, with belts of ammunition draped impressively all over the place.

Circling back to the topic of this thread: Hard to see why most or all of the figures in an "ambush" set are not prone. Of course, again I'm going back to the movie for my information! I guess a lot of these figures are for the advance on the train and the looting, although they seem a little static for that.

Perhaps Strelets assume that many of us have plenty of figures from the venerable set of Bedouin made by another manufacturer (for decades the ONLY Bedouin set) in which the vast majority -- 10 out of the 16 dismounted figures -- are either prone or kneeling. Then there are those six men running and waving a rifle -- a fairly useless pose with a ridiculously small base to boot.

In any event, Strelets have provided us with copious numbers of figures in other sets that can also take part in ambushes! The Arabs in Skirmish M142 set comes readily to mind.

Ha! Just noticed that the proposed box for the Ambush set says "Rif War". Now THAT's absurd!:smile:

Jul 17th, 2021 - 6:24 PM

Jul 17, 2021 - 9:34PM

91.53.190.57

Re: Arabs in ambush

No argument there :wink:

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