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Re: Turkish Uniforms 1842-1850+. !

Hi Uwe, Very lucky tHis especially uniform information that has caused so much questions.I find it hidden in the document despite its partial electronic corruption. it does explain teh uniform colors of jackets etc for the ordus(armies )and why we see different colors in paintings artwork especially 1853/4. it was written in 1851 by skene.
btw blue/indigo dye was expensive in those days.purple is traditionally teh favored orinetal/african color.

2nd army/ORDU red jacket/

In reality , attempt of STANDARDIZATION OF THE new era EUROPEAN STYLE "OTTOMAN" UNIFORM MUST HAVE TAKEN PLACE LATE IN 1854,after silistra and after Kalafat/cetate battles. No doubt Kurds kept their shamal for good reasons etc .


In teh Crimea peninsula even after 1854 we do see drawings of the egyptian style short blue waist jacket and straight white leg pants, 180 degree rear tassels on teh larger fez.The egyptians were classed by turks as teh Ottoman elites.

1854 The artwork of the lithographers changes with the style of uniforms with the mass of stockpiled supplies going to BALACLAVA so many ships available even american merchants subcontracted to help ottoman french and brittish etc. Feshane was in full production then.tHE Egyptians who had their own uniform factories retained their identity.

Wow it take almost 6 year to get thru this documentary evidence. Hopefully more will appear as more libraries go online.

Thats the jackets sorted out we need to find soemthing about teh baggy pants chuckle.

ps sorry for capital words i am in big hurry.

Re: Turkish Uniforms 1842-1850+. !

Dear Hank

Good source

but the "full text" is poor, probably an early scan

Use the PDF version.

The text reads "The uniform is plain and neat -dark blue with red facings, excepting the cavalry and artillery of the 2nd Ordu who wear red jackets,and, in the 3rd,4th,5th and 6th, purple, brown, fawn-coloured and light blue. The officers....."

p66 op cit

notice I have cited the page and reproduced it from Skene's text just in case I may have got a comma, etc wrong.

Please note 1st Ordu (Guards) is not mentioned in Skene's text as the assumption is the cavalry and artillery wear the standard blue with red facings in this Ordu.

This is quite different to your interpretation (2nd posting).
Not the armies but the cavalry and artillery in those armies according to Skene.


Re: Turkish Uniforms 1842-1850+. !

exactly professori.teh pdf is littel better thankyou to replicate. Looking at a few contemporary paintings i would throw an arm out and also say not only teh artillerie and cavalrie of but pioneers also were distinguished with a slight variation.

is typical i just finish my Kalafat cavalri edivision of 3 brigades and now i need to review teh cavalrie jacket color plus jacket color of teh artillerie. What fun colors... Mr Rowlandd will be happy also.

while we say artillerie i say to STrelets LIMBERS !!!PLEASE with rtw artillerie please !)

Rashid Pasha IS SOMETHING I NEED TO focis on to seek HOW MUCH FRENCH INFLUENCE FROM TEH MILITAIRE SCOOL IN METZ he used.teh talles need to be pinpointed.mor einformation on teh turk-egypt war is good to dig with.

Re: Turkish Uniforms 1842-1850+. !

Purple and light blue? fantastic! i can see my Crimean Ottamens having supply problems if it means i can paint some interesting coats such as these!

Cheers, steve

Re: Turkish Uniforms 1854-6 a slightly different angle

By a British surgeon on the staff of Omar Pasha in the Crimean War. The introduction is good as he writes about faded uniforms

From John Netten Radcliffe - the Hygiene of the Turkish soldier

Wear and Turkish uniforms

"But when, after a brief period, the short-cut tunic has shrunk out of all proportion, and has become flecked with brown and greyish white stains, as of mildew, the original blue having early faded; when the coarse strands of the cloth are visible at many a roughly used point; "

and later

"The uniform of the Turkish soldier is made of the coarsest materials, and its colour, dark blue, is fleeting. Moreover, the regulation tunic has a wretched and uncomfortable aspect, and straight-cut trowsers are unsuited to habits of kneeling and sitting cross-legged. The soldier is not ill clad, so far as amount of clothing is concerned, and his dress is in several respects well fitted to the climate of the different parts of the Turkish empire. The complete suit of strong cotton which every man wears next the skin, is calculated to protect the surface from those slight, but sudden, alterations of temperature which not unfrequently accompany exposure to the evening breezes, or the light airs of early morning, during the hotter seasons of the year, and which are apt to induce serious functional and other disorders. On the other hand, during the colder seasons, the under-clothing, which is then made of cotton of a closer and heavier texture, contributes in an important manner to the maintenance of the warmth of the body.

In the summer, loose white trousers are worn, and, according to the regulations of the service, a white jacket should be issued to each man; and when, at this season (as in the case of the Egyptian troops), the men are clad altogether in white, the effect is most pleasing, particularly on parade. The loose white dress sets off both the men and the accoutrements, and the bright red of the fez, and its polished brass plate, give a brilliant finish.

The fez affords slight protection against rain and the sun, and it does not give any shade or defence to the eyes; yet, obnoxious as this head-dress may be to western notions, no very apparent evils arise from its use—at least, trustworthy evidence of its harmfulness is wanting. The hood, which is attached to every soldier's over-coat, is an additional protection to the head from wet; the existence of any peculiar tendency to evil effects arising from undue action of the sun's rays upon the head, and consequent upon the use of the fez, is doubtful; and although some medical men consider that the fez induces an unusual amount of ophthalmic affections amongst the Turkish troops, yet these affections are so frequently, if not generally, associated with filthy habits, that the correctness of the conclusion may be doubted."
The infantry are shod with loose strong slippers; the cavalry with boots which extend to the middle of the leg; and both classes of soldiers wear thick woollen stockings.

"The soldier loves to have his legs warmly clad, and he often has recourse to sundry effective but ungainly expedients, in addition to the means provided for him,to attain this end. The peasant recruit, accustomed to enwrap his legs in some thick material, the folds of which are kept in their place by ligatures of twine, carries this habit into the camp, and the suburban or town-bred recruit adopts the more sightly " legging" of eastern costume. It is not uncommon, during a march, to see the soldier with his trousers and drawers rolled up to the knee, exposing legs so swathed as to be almost shapeless.

The slipper is, perhaps, the most objectionable portion of the soldier's dress. An abomination in wet weather, and a serious impediment in mud, it is only when the ground is hard and dry that this form of covering for the feet is at all supportable. Certainly from habit the Turk shuffles along exceedingly well in the slipper, and it is endeared to him by the usages of his religion; but thus shod the soldier can rarely, if ever, acquire that smartness of action, and precision of step, which is requisite to the perfection of a western drill. In the best-trained regiments, shortcomings from this source may be discerned, and no cause contributes more to that want of a soldier-like bearing, which is so conspicuous among the Turkish troops.

The slipper is an imperfect protection against wet and damp, and its use is doubtless a common source of disease, although habit, and the custom which is usually practised by the Turkish soldier, particularly in inclement weather, of clothing the legs warmly, may diminish the chances of mischief.

Each soldier is provided with a long large overcoat, to which is attached a capacious hood. The over-coat, which is of sufficient length to extend below the middle of the leg, is made of coarse, heavy cloth, and it shields the body tolerably well from both wind and rain.

The Turk has a habit which is very instructive. When in the morning or the evening, during the hotter seasons, he reclines in the open air, or before the unclosed window, he will generally have cast loosely around him, if he be of the wealthier class, a large coat lined with fur, or if he be of the poorer class, a heavy sheep-skin coat. Thus, without incommoding himself, he is safely protected from the evils which the cooler hours of the day might bring to him, and he resists more effectually the insidious poison which is often borne upon the wind. For in most parts of the Turkish empire, the wind, sweeping over imperfectly cultivated or marshy tracts of land, is apt to be laden with pernicious malaria, which finds a lodgment most readily during the hours when the system is relaxed.

Another habit customary with the Turk when enjoying himself in the open air, and worthy of note, is the use of the carpet spread upon the ground. The carpet not only makes a cleanly seat, but it also protects from whatever moisture there may be at the surface of the earth.

The Turkish soldier practises both these habits, and he may be seen, in the intervals of duty, squatted upon his carpet, and with his large, hooded great-coat thrown loosely over his shoulders, enjoying the cooling breeze, and inhaling the grateful fume of tobacco.

The issue of clothing to each soldier is as follows:— One uniform coat, one pair of uniform trousers, two pairs of white trousers, a light jacket for summer, two winter shirts, two summer shirts, two pairs of winter drawers, two pairs of summer drawers, two pairs of stockings, and one fez, every year; one pair of slippers every three months; and a great-coat every three years. A carpet, measuring about six and a half feet in length and four feet in breadth, is also issued to each man yearly.

The weight of the knapsack and accoutrements of the infantry soldier, in marching order, and exclusive of the weapons, is full twenty okes (fifty-five pounds)."

A great coat issued every three years must have looked very threadbare at the end of its life.

He has more white trousers than blue ones so this probably explains why they are often seen not just in the summer.

The carpet is interesting as it is quite big. I presume a lot would go in the baggage train.


Re: Turkish Uniforms 1854-6 a slightly different angle

artiste Remy painted some nice series of illustrations of Turkish army in white with baggy white pants 1859(supplied from Uwe).The unifrom was obviously already in use.

I AM THINKING PERHAPS TEH FAWN BROWN JACKET of cavalrie and artillerie IS MISTAKEN FOR WHITE ? Colors described in century 19 are not teh same as they are described in modern times.

Also if we have cavalrie in sieges we could be seeing them in dismounted action,at silistra etc where the carabiniers mentioned is another oblique we have to consider from the artwork.Facinating, i despise our predessing enthusiats ancestors for nnot safeguarding historical records better.shame on them shame on teh people who let teh libraries of alexandria burn down,so much history has been lost is catastrophique crime.

Re: Turkish Uniforms 1854-6 a slightly different angle

Dear Hank

When you look at the amount of issued clothes per man they must have washed them a lot. Two pairs of drawers - one to wear and one to wash. The blue dye would have run into the whites in the wash. Nothing wrong in painting the figures in fresh from the loom colours but the reality was probably a lot different.

Descriptions of colours in words always fall short. Fawn is a good one - very much the stuff of police descriptions; he was wearing a fawn coat. Jersey cattle and Chihuahuas have fawn colouring. Fawn, Fallow, Camel, Tan are similar browns I am not sure where one finishes and the other starts. Sounds like a good camouflage colour for desert regions. Fawn would be Mocha Latte in 21st cent lingo.


Re: Turkish Uniforms 1854-6 a slightly different angle

Hi Professori,yes that is a reason that i looked deeper into uniforms following into teh Feshane ottoman/Turkish uniform factory story and superbe book book i mentioned in other threads.

it is important to trace these manufacturers back/down to collect data.Interesting to see soem of the relic clothes still in good condition after many years in museums etc.i think then there was more stitches per square inch than we see in modern clothing truly coems in the total war and scientific development brackets, tht sustains an army in the field in comparative comfirt.

how many of you ex modern militaire had your camouflages suits fade in theh wash especially desert ad jungle theatres clothing. mmmh is a similar issue as in the 1850's etc.russia seems to always do well with their clothing as much captured equipment became ottoman issue(back pack especially copied etc)

war clothing is as important as war weapons.both need to come togther as a system for teh soldier to utilise with maximum effect and comfort factors yes.
always local purchase is /was an option.Wallachia and Djobra winter industry was soon as available translations are available we wil know more of each country and the composition of teh fighyting men.

i likew to know where the steel came from the sulphate teh brass teh wool the factory the mine and see how it develpoed.The french napoleonic studies are sure taking it to these extremes which should be a template for all other military eras.a top down history made available to the publics ideal but things are lost , companies go bust etc.lose contracts etc records get lost is bad news for historians.

have fun lets look for more.

MR ROWLAND= Ottoman organization 1843-1853

1843 army reform began and 1848 executed so in 1853

1St ARMY/ORDU BLUE JACKET artillery & cavalrie Imperial Gyard Constanpinople hq
7 infantry regiments/alays (of 3 btns each)
4 light infantry regiments (talles)
5 cavalrie regiments (6 squadrons each 2 carabiniers 4 lance each)
1 artillerie regiment (11 companies of 6 guns and 1 company of 4 mountain gun)

2nd army/ORDU red jacket/artillery & cavalrie Scutari hq
6 infantry regiments
6 light infantry regiments
4 cavalrie regiments
1 artillerie regiment

3RD ARMY/ORDU.PURPLE JACKET artillery & cavalrie Roumelia/Monastir hq
7 infantry regiments
4 light infantry regiments
5 cavalrie regiments
plus 1 kossacken regiment 1 dragoon regiment
1 artillerie regiment

4TH ARMY/ORDU artillery and cavalrie BROWN JACKET Anatolia/Kharpout hq
6 infantry regiments
6 light infantry regiments
4 cavalrie regiments
1 artillerie regiment

5TH ARMY/ORDU LIGHT FAWN artillery and cavalrie JACKET Arabia/ Damascus hq
6 infantry regiments
6 light infantry regiments
4 cavalrie regiments
1 artillerie regiment

---- added new
6TH ARMY/ORDU LIGHT BLUE JACKET Mesopotamia/Baghdad hq

4 infantry regiments
4 light infantry regiments
2 cavalrie regiments
1 artillerie regiment

does not include egyptian army/tunisian army etc