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Re: HOW BRAVE ARE STRELETS ?

Yes, all the WW1 Russian infantry, cavalry and support weapons from Strelets and HaT are good to go for the White Army, Czech Legion etc. (there's even a Putilov gun in the works). Curious to know what Hank thinks is missing?

Re: HOW BRAVE ARE STRELETS ?

lets see

Estonian army
Latvian army
Polish army
Ukrainian Blue army
Nestor Makhnos army
Officers corps
Red naval brigades

Re: HOW BRAVE ARE STRELETS ?

Dear all

The HaT WWI Russian infantry are slender figures very nicely sculpted but not compatible with Strelets figures unless you don't give a fig about scale or appearance. There are so many styles and 1/72nd scales now it seems better for a company to produce a range themselves rather than filling in gaps. M018 retooled (all with hats) and other tweaks seems a good idea.

David

Re: HOW BRAVE ARE STRELETS ?

its like this.i want and rather have just strelets figures.no other makers,would be ideal too me I seek balanced collection.inf cav art all teh way both sides.

RCW For some reason specific REd Army Units are made but not White Russian Army.Hank says ,hey i want teh real deal.so lets ask .

Are peopel still scared of communists,bolsheviks etc? I remind you that Moscows mayday parade's russian new uniforms were styled on teh Imperial Russian era.It is true, even teh parade commentators mentioned it.

I believe there is becomming an acceptance of tolerance of teh tragic Imperial era.It is recognised much history was inadvertedly destroyed by revolutions to extreme reactions of clensing proportions.Not that i am saying it was right , but History happened it took place its part of the heritage.

It was however a grandois era and many nations had both good and bad policies foreign and domestic. We here just want to reenac tthe great battles by teh armies .I have no political line other than pitching one armies might against another on a game table.
SO GIVE ME THE WHITE RUSSIANS STRELETS !!!!!

Re: HOW BRAVE ARE STRELETS ?

I strongly agree with both David and Hank that Strelets figures deserve their own ranges. I really like the Strelets style, but as mentioned above, the figures do not match other companies products very well in many cases. A good example would be the US Cavalry set. We need Stelets Sioux, Apaches and Dismounted Cav because other companies figs dont really match.

Suspend PRODUCTION of RCW REDS .....STRELETS

Hello Strelets , for such a massive war RCW was, why we only get 12 figures mini sets. come on please consider unleash your sculptors and add to the exisiting ones and make a full blown SR 44-48 set.ADD both these sets together and a third sprue with rolled coats to merge the sets and then a machine gun for tshcanka or with human pullers(cheaper !in al aspects yes).

Then lets get that WHITE RUSSIAN with ww1 hats you mention above in mirror set.Come on lets look at the Strelets mission statement again.Impact wowie and zowie isnt gonna happen with any number of mini sets it does with SR Regular sets.

Put some(sorry.. more) vodka on teh sculptors table and tell them "okay go primal petrushka..its hand to hand with the comrades".

Re: Beat The Whites Until They're Red, Beat The Reds Until They're Black...

Right, I take David's point about remaking the WW1 Russian summer dress with all peaked caps because from what I've read helmets (the Adrian type) didn't really make into the White Army due to how it was assembled (Mark Plant with his "Pygmy Wars" site and on TMP are very good on this). Hey I just use head swaps ;) The winter dress set don't need any change.

Hank, if you want Tsarist, Imperialist forces from Strelets they already exist - centuries of them from Peter the Great, Napoleonic War, Crimean War and WW1, not to mention forthcoming RTW. Strelets made specific Red Army sets because they started to get a very distinctive uniform from 1919/20 that lasted until early WW2. The Whites (and many others in the RCW) did not - they wore the WW1 uniform more or less. Do you want the same sprues in a new box with "White Army" written on the front?

I have 5 boxes of the WW1 winter dress which is one of the best sculpted and most versatile they've made - I'm using them for Whites, Reds, Blacks, Greens and Ukrainian Blues - all the colours of the rainbow

Steve O

Dear Steve O

The WWI winter set is good. I backdated them to Russo Japanese war figures so they can go back in time as well. The poses are limited though and represent an army regularly uniformed and essentially for the WWI Eastern front - trench and movement war. Nonetheless they can be used for all RCW armies as supplements or core figures. Marching, advancing and without bashlyks would giving scope for at least another set. I like reasonably sized units and 12 poses is not enough for two similar looking armies. Set M044 has some nice detail touches on the uniforms eg bandoliers. Together with the aforementioned M017 set you have the basis of a good defending Red Army infantry unity. A new advancing White Army set would give scope again for merging with set M017 to producing a better looking unit.
David

White Russians

Dear Hank and others

Believe it or not I used to know a member of a White Russian family who was also a Romanov, fought for Mussolini in Abbysinia, became a Marxist, etc
see:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/obituaries/article1293211.ece

People often changed attitudes in the 1920s/30s and either being a Bolshevik or White Russian was not a choice for life but usually out of necessity (or birth in his case). You are right, for a history of contrasts is far more understandable than trying to examine the complexity and insanity of civil wars. This is the stuff of national myths and necessary motivational propaganda. Modelling figures, wargaming helps us to find out a little more about the grey shades in conflicts. The 1/72nd scale figures are neutral or should be. The range of RCW sets should include all or most participants otherwise there is no point in collecting them.

David

Re: White Russians

If I may say a couple words on a subject near-and-dear to my Soviet Kiev-raised heart: Strelets should be encouraged to develop their own ranges of figures for the Russian Civil War and the other related wars of the period. Having said that, Strelets are probably their own best judges of what kind of units can be portrayed best with figures already on the market, so that they do not have to incur the expense of producing and selling figures that won't capture real market share. The fact of the matter is that the existing Strelets WWI infantry and cavalry sets just about fully capture the uniforms of most White units during the RCW (although the plethora of helmets in the infantry set is really too much for conflict in which most soldiers eschewed helmets even where they were available). The Orion Red Cavalry and Basmachi sets are also nice and complementary in scale and sculpting. Also, many of the Redbox Boxer Rebellion Russian soldiers and sailors would look right at home on the battlefields of the RCW, although their sculpting style is rather different from Strelets. Of the Hat sets, the heavy weapons Russians are also compatible in my view and the same would probably go for the upcoming artillery sets. The Hat infantry, on the other hand, ARE a poor fit, both because of their sculpting style and because they really look too much like the relatively well-equipped Russian soldiers of the early years of World War I than like the more ragged and irregular looking men of the RCW. For example, even the well-dressed and drilled Officer's Regiments of the RCW carried little of the regulation equipment in battle that the Hat WWI infantry are sporting.

That said, what do I think Strelets should make to fill out the range of the conflict? For customers in the former Soviet Bloc (and its diaspora) for whom popular media depictions of the RCW are part of their youth, would be (1) Red Naval Infantry, (2) Officer's Units, all of whose members wore officer's shoulder boards and other marks of rank and (3) Partisans (who could be a mixture of Makhnovite anarchists, Red partisans like Kovtiukh or Antonovite peasant rebels). A "command" set with personalities from all sides (Makhno, Denikin, Wrangel, Kolchak, Trotsky, Budyenni, Chapaev, etc.) would also probably be a big seller. If there are enough potential buyers in Poland, Ukraine or the Baltics (which is not a given), sets of Polish infantry or cavalry for the Russo-Polish War and Ukrainian Sich riflemen with their distinctive headgear would be nice representations of their respective armies. I have a hard time believing that sets of Baltic troops would find much of a market (aplogies in advance to my Balt friends), but perhaps a combined set of Lithuanian, Latvian and Estonian soldiers could be appropriate, given the fact that all of those armies were essentially clothed in ex-Russian Army uniforms with distinctive insignia patches and, on occasion, distinctive caps. Anything more exotic than that should probably expect a converter's knife in the foreseeable future.

As for Hank's comment on history, I'm sure that Strelets is not worried about Communists -- after all, hardly anyone in Russia or Ukraine these days is worried about them anymore. The wounds of the RCW have not been healed, and the effort to reconcile the competing national narratives of the Reds and Whites (who were themselves many different and frequently opposed factions) is part of the Putin government's agenda. This effort is not systematic and is often fitful, but there is finally an effort in Russia to move beyond the caricatures and stereotypes through which the period was viewed under Communist rule to something more complex and which allows people on both sides of the bloody divide to understand each other's motives and be considered patriotic Russians. The recent film about Admiral Kolchak -- which portrayed him and the White movement in a positive light but also raised questions about his role in the RCW -- is one such effort. The conspicous respect paid to the Czarist Royal Family is another. Russia is slowly coming to grips with its bloody 20th century history, but it will be a long process. In the meantime, perhaps we can honor the men (and women) who fought and died for their deepest beliefs by admiring their likenesses in miniature as we reflect on the nature of things.

S Novim Godom.

Re: White Russians

Okay i interpret STrelets message below.

key phrases they use =

"at the moment"
"is still an option"

----
yes,so i am saying i wOULD LIKE that option for RCW .White Guards !

-----
"at the moment ---- we're hoping for the WWI Russians released by other companies to be the opponents to our Reds. Having said that, WWI Russians in summer uniform with caps is still an option for us."
---
nice story samogen

Re: White Russians

http://www.hot.ee/vabadussoda/teema.htm

if you click those links on left you an see photos that Estonian troops wore different mixed uniforms.
German helmets and Russian boots and British uniforms
officers wore British helmets

http://www.laidoner.ee/projektid/4/6_2.html
http://static.epl.ee/pildid/2007/normal/105937.jpg
http://www.utlib.ee/ee/raamatumuuseum/rara7s.jpg
http://www.laidoner.ee/projektid/4/8_1.html
http://www.laidoner.ee/projektid/4/

more pictures and also in English

Re: White Russians

Fair enough. Though you would notice that supply changed in the course of the Estonian War of Independence (I don't know Estonian, but I could more or less follow the chronology in the links) -- the soldiers started out wearing what looked a lot like Russian uniforms with nationalist badges and caps, then acquired items of German uniform or kit from the retreating Germans around 1918-19 and eventually received supplies of British uniforms and equipment around 1919-20. They ended up looking more British than anything, at least in their summer uniforms.

Another idea for Strelets would be to do British tommies in their 1914-15 uniforms, without the helmet. Other than the old toy-like Airfix set, no one else has done this period. A realistic-looking set could be painted to depict any Baltic army of the RCW period, many of the White forces in Siberia and South Russia who received shipments of British kit and even Greek troops in the Turkish War of Independence (I bet Hank would like that). Add a set of late-war Germans who could depict Freikorps and you have another set with multiple uses and multiple customer bases.

One other RCW set that I forgot to mention that should be a good seller would be Red cavalry in summer uniforms with a mixture of the Budyennovka and other headgear.

Re: White Russians

Nice links TMR

Samogon you can just stop right there buster...no more ideas about red cavalry when i try and promote White Russians .chuckle

Re: White Russians - poses not uniforms

Dear all

My point to Steve O was 12 poses do not give enough variation when you may be using the set for two or three armies in winter. Given that 12 poses is the total for a set then Whites or Czech Legion sets, for example, may hopefully give us some more prone or advancing figures, sentries, etc to convert( or leave as they are). The uniforms or a check list of them is to my mind less important than considering the nature of the warfare and having a range of poses that help to create that. Samogon's suggestion of partisans is good but they should be in ambush poses and not as if they were in a trench in Galicia. 12 poses for Naval units would far too few when considering the functions they would hve to cover. The HaT heavy weapons set figures are, of course, in summer uniforms so a winter set is needed which could have mixed White and Red crews.
The Strelets WWI Russian cavalry are excellent material for conversion (or just leaving as they are) and they offer lots of scope.

Finally it is strange that the argument not to duplicate does not apply to Imperial Romans or Napoleonic French Cuirassiers. I seem to remember presenting an homogeneous range was the argument.

David

Re: White Russians - poses not uniforms

Professori i AGREE WITH much you say.I deteste 12 figure mini sets when it fristrates teh good quality should be more represented for big battle.Main infantries should all be regualr 44-48 sets .Stone throwers or skirmishers etc yes 12 is fine.

But duplicate sets liek cuirassieurs killed me especially when waiting for CW Turk.needless, but they are very nice i admit its just personal choice and aspirations get dented....real hard.i live in hope of seeing more CW TURK even RTW Turk.

I am still working on russian artillery would you beloeve how much time it take let alone expense. I think i am at $120 to make up 4 gun,limber caisson.
crazy...but most of us who do this are.(Thats 1 battery of 6 yikes you will see when Kalafat 6 is in June).Turkish Artilelry is needing much improvement.So that will take 4 month also.

Re: White Russians - poses not uniforms

David and Samogen, lets hope for all the RCW sets we can get! I wish periods like the RCW or SCW were more generally "popular" for gamers so we could have all the Whites, Reds, Anarchists, Nationalists sets that we want...but we can't...for now.

Unfortunately we aren't asking for yet more Ancient Romans, Napoleonic French or WW2 Germans so we have to be realistic about our expectations and make the most of what is out there. These companies exist in a market and sales figures to survive.

"The recent film about Admiral Kolchak -- which portrayed him and the White movement in a positive light but also raised questions about his role in the RCW -- is one such effort. The conspicous respect paid to the Czarist Royal Family is another."
- Samogen

And let's not forget the Mosfilm TV serial "Nine Lives Of Nestor Makhno" from 2005.

Current projects: converting the Italeri WW2 Russian Infantry to White officer regiments. Some nice Maxim MGs in there. Preiser WW2 Russian Tank riders to Tachanka crew. HaT French caissons to Tachankas. Strelets WW1 infantry and cavalry to all comers...