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to Hank the Sardinian


you seem to have insider knowledge of the Sardinian military operations. You're not part of the Sardinian Royal Family, are you?

What motivated the Sardinians to interfere on the Crimean pensinula anyway, allied with the Turks? You would think that after the fall of Constantinople and the Turko-Venetian wars, Italians wouldn't be friendly with Turks, but rather fight against them.

Re: to Hank the Sardinian

You raise a good point.Peter the Great sums it up well...

But you can look to the "influential" diplomatic savoir faire (or meddling... as they say ?)of the Inglese/English for indirectly financing Sardinian /Turkish involvement to protect their own interests (eg major India and African trade routes). Mutual back scratches.

History and lessons we could learn if we just would read it

Erm, the final fall of Konstantinopel took place on the 29. of May in 1453. As I understand Hank refers to the Sardinean units which were part of "allied" forces fighting the Russian armies during the Crimean War (1853-56) in 1855/56.
Huh, more than 400 years between!
The upcoming nationalism and emancipation of the "Italians" (there was no united "Italy" at that time, since it was splitted into several states and parts of its today territory were under Habsburger/Austrian control and don`t forget the then large Vatikan/Churchstate, ...) made the Sardiniens joining the "western" allies to bring up the "Italian Question" on the tables of politic of the European governments. With result: In 1859 the Sardinians and French fought a war against the Austrians (with little success though, but later conflicts and actions finally formed an Italian unity and state, but thats another story...)
Enrico may lighten up some with more detailed information!
So if following your argument, the French and the Germans would still be "Erbfeinde" (=arch enemies) because they fought 3 very bloody wars in just 75 years time span (1870/71, 1914-18, 1939-45), but in reality they`re partners in the EU & NATO and both nations believe in the "Deutsch-Französische Freundschaft" (=german-french-friendship)... .
As you`re from the states(?) you know that the US forces fought the Germans in 1917/18 and 1941-45 but how it comes that both nations (well for Germany now talking about the state of West Germany until 1989/90) are partners in the NATO sinc long (1955 signed by W.-G.)? THATS POLITICS MATE!
Like you already found out in 300/Spartans Thread - the Spartans fought the Persians and after that were allied with their former enemy against their "greece brothers", if someone reads just a little bit of his history lessons, he will notice very quickly the sneaky ways of politics and "diplomacy"... .
BTW the Crimean War wasn`t fought by the western allies for sympathy reasons toward the Turks/Osmans, it was first of a all a war AGAINST Russian DOMINATIN, but thats enough for today kids... .

Re: History and lessons we could learn if we just would read it

Peter, I couldn't be writing a better and concise description (not in english, anyway...) of Piedmontese (not "italians"!) urge for taking part into an international coalition.
...Just like today

Re: Re: History and lessons we could learn if we just would read it

Thanks for your help guys. Well, I agree with you that it's pretty obvious that the Sardinians changed their minds on the Turks between 1453 and the Crimean war. And I didn't doubt that, my question was WHY did that happen and HOW? What were their motivations?

Peter is bringing up some nice examples of France, Germany and the US being friends and allies out of a sudden, after banging their heads together a few times. I guess we all know why that happened. They were afraid of a Communist invasion at the time they formed the NATO alliance.

Or it's the Romans and Visigoths fighting each other for centuries, then they ally against the Huns, then they fight against each other again. You know, in that case it's pretty simple to understand the motives of Goths and Romans to team up. They want to survive as independent people.

So, with the Sardinians and the Turks, was it fear, greed, peer pressure or what that caused them to ally against Russia? Were the Sardinians paid mercenaries like the Hessians in the AWI? That's the part that I don't understand.

Russia was no imminent threat to Sardinia, as those two countries lie very far away from each other. Plus the Russian people are quite civilized and well-behaved, much unlike the Huns. So I doubt it was the fear factor that caused Sardinia to join the attack against Russia. Just, what was it then?

Re: Re: Re: History and lessons we could learn if we just would read it

as Peter said, Piedmonte needed to gain reputation amongst european powers as leading nation in the italian peninsula in his effort to join al the small states into a country.
The biggest problem was to bring Austria out to northern Italy; to defeat Neapolitan Kingdom could have been a relatively easy task (as it really was some year later thanks to Garibaldi) and also Church State without the french support (engaged by Prussia)was not a great problem.
And to defeat Austrian Empire was not possible (1848 lesson) without the help of european state: France had good reasons to create a relatively small state between his borders and Austria...
So, nothing against the distant Russian giant, and no real interest for Turkish matters, but... "business is business"

Re: Re: Re: Re: History and lessons we could learn if we just would read it

Alright, Enrico, I think I understand. Thanks for teaching me Italian history. It's 'manus manum lavat' how the Romans used to say.

Looks like the Crimean war really caused a lot of strife in the aftermath, possibly including WW1.

What I also learned today is that during the Crimean war, cigarettes were introduced to the Western world. Since cigarettes are undoubtedly today's enemy #1, one could argue that the Crimean war caused more harm and damage to human life than any other war in history.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: History and lessons we could learn if we just would read it

While the Crimean War may have introduced cigarettes to the West, tobacco use in Europe dates back to its introduction from America, so we cant blame the Turks for that. I would suggest alcohol might be a more destructive vice than tobacco - at least smokers mostly kill themselves, but drunks often kill other people, and man has been distilling whatever he can get hold of to make alcohol since forever!

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: History and lessons we could learn if we just would read it

Nice thought Jon, but wrong. Second hand smoke is almost as dangerous, poisonous and cancerogenic as the primary inhalant (this is especially true for children and asthmatics).It's not just a nuissance. Also you will still find a lot more smokers than people with an alcohol addiction these days...

So if there are any smokers out there who read this line: Try to quit and buy a box of toy soldiers a day instead. The price is about the same :-)

Ahh ...the aroma of perfume de la guerre

Never mind tobacco smoke... firing weapons and being encased in clouds of gun smoke are the perfume of a battlefield. Causing larger than 1/72nd lifesive "boogers/bogies/snot" which delicately removed by a selected finger nail in a moments peace, when taking cover from enemy fire behind a barricade trench, helped reduces ones blood pressure.

Now able to breathe a deep breath and more oxygen into the bloodstream, its up, dash forward 10 yards and down....en avant mes braves.