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Where is the Hobby Going? You say ... ?

Mini, Mini, Mini,

The Answer to all modern 1/72 needs is ...

4-pose-sets becoming the norm. Holy Graham Cracker crumbs!

I hate it. I hate it. I hate it.

Remember the 1970's Woody Allen movies with the "Orgazmatron" or the "S ... Parachutists?"

Stupid as it was then, seems I'm being pushed into the ... -tron for my 1/72 toy soldier pleasures.

"Something is better than nothing?

Bull, bull, bull. Our forefathers would never had said this, "I surrender, I lay down, I give up" attitude.

Every theme deserves a good, strong, well-represented set, and then some other minor ones.

Happy Collecting Everyone!

Re: Where is the Hobby Going? You say ... ?

Surrender? Never! Adapt? Absolutely.

Our forefathers that didn't adapt to reality, went extinct. (or the opposite could be argued, they adapted right out of toy soldier making)


I have heard from three different manufacturers, the same thing: sales are stagnant, and in some cases dropping. The market just can't absorb 100 sets a year. Some things sell okay, others don't. But they are all equally costly to make.

So for me, something is better than nothing. I could want a set of "the Fall of the Roman Empire" with everything. But realistically that can't be done without killing the comapany that makes it. It would be hugely expensive, not many could afford to buy it. etc.

But I could get the same set in a series of cheaper mini-sets. Think about it. The Crimean Turks have been on the list for a long time. Maybe it just can't see the light of day in the old format. Wouldn't you be willing to take a trade-off of a mini-set, just to ensure it gets made? I would. That's all I meant. A mini set doesn't mean you can't have the awesome army you want. Maybe it can still happen. You've given the formula yourself in earlier posts: the standard poses in one mini-set, (then if that sells well, it helps finance the next step) The staff and personalities in another mini-set, (then if that sells) the specialty poses (fighting, wouded, casualties, hanging out at camp, whatever). I would be okay with that. Bottom line, these guys just need to adapt to ensure they can stay around to make figures.

1/72 Figuring it out.

Hi Arlin, Well first off, I totally agree with all of your points you made.

I think it will be a case of having to COMPROMISE. If there is to be a major change in Strelets production availability in the future. I like you, prefer some figures than no figures.

Strelets look like they have looked at Hats 100 figure boxes and fine tuned that to what we see as the Strelets Mini set.

Personally for me, that may mean making more conversions but at least if there is a mini set available then I'll have a very good base figure to work with.

NOTA BENE.
Looking at the Strelets-R future figures there is supposedly "9" sets still to come in the Crimean War range.( "coming soon".)

Re: 1/72 Figuring it out.

Another point here is that although Stretlets are Minis there are still 12 different poses. That beats the Hat Macedonian phalanx or Greek hoplites that could also be considered as Minis but with only4 main poses represented with only 8 different figures. Also the Miniart Swiss pike with 12 figures in 3 poses works well for producing a compact pike block.

So just to restate my views, some periods can be very well represented with the 12 different figure Mini format. I remember that before Airfix went bankcrupt their sets had reduced to just 7 poses to represent everything.

Best regards,


Malcolm

OK, Heres How To Survive & Keep Us Happy ... Non Mssrs?

I hope you guys agree it's good to "raise some dust", and then when it clears, we may see a new perspective in front of us.

OK, heres how to take 6 Command and Infantry boxes, reduce them to 1 box, and then supplement with Mini Sets to fill-out each "Campaign".

Arlin, Jan, Malcolm, Jon, Valdemars - all of your points are right on. "Change, adapt, or die!" And 12 poses ain't bad!

My big worry, that we still retain the play-set capability, without only ending up with wargaming-type line poses only.

"I want my casualties, Mike Creek wants his radioman and women fighters, others want their Commanders, ... " Remember, HaT/Waterloo produced General Gordon of Khartoum fame, and has been beaten over his head with the fact there are 4 Gordens in every box. Buy 5 boxes, and you have 20 Gordons. See? So ...

Somehow, one good Main Set Box (50 different figurines only), in one color representing it's side such as Crimean Terracotta Red for Allies & Green for Russians and Allies. That first box should contain:

* 3 Famous British Commanders
* 3 Famous French Commanders
* 3 Famous Turkish Commanders
* 3 Famous American Commanders (No! Joking! Keep humour)
* X NCOs for each Nationality
* X Ambulance crew for one Nationality
* 1 x 3 Casualties in different poses for each Nationality
* 1 Small weapons crew for another (Rockets, Grenades)
* X Interesting bayonneting, clubbing, thrusting, ... poses for each Nationality and a few basics.

Now you have one set, covering one "Campaign" all the main Allies and in individual poses that don't need repeating.

Now Mini Sets of 12 figurines in the basic standing and kneeling firing, marching ... :

* Individual Infantry Mini Set
* Individual Cavalry Set
* Individual Artillery Set

Nobody is going to want 4 Infantry casualty poses in a mini set (unless Charge of the Light Brigade theme), so only one of each Nationality (maybe 3 total for Crimean War) in the Main Box Set which covers all the Allies in one set.

So, you should be encouraged to buy the Main Box and then supplement with Minis as desired.

And I do agree with all of you. I hope Strelets*R can glean some useful information from everyone's suggestions.

And P.S. Your old moulds should never be destroyed. They should be saved for distant future re-runs in after-life as Airfix has done. Malcolm's reference to Airfix is quite appropriate. Airfix has given up, but not HaT, Imex, Heller (RIP), et als in re-runs in new colors - Bravo!

I really hope the S*R Team copies these ideas and keeps them for round-tabling them in meetings. Arlin, Creek, Malcolm, Jan, Jon, Hank, Bill ... are all passionate customers and are trying to say what they are willing to save money for. :-)

Cheers Mates!

Re: Where is the Hobby Going? You say ... ?

There seems no doubt that his hobby, with its spectacular growth over the past few years, has now hit and perhaps exceeded saturation. A new product every 3 days is just more than the market can bear - plenty on this forum have said they no longer buy everything as they cant afford to.

Companies must and will decide what is best for them, and I entirely agree with Arlin that less is better than none. This is not surrender, this is reality. If companies are bullied or persuaded to make bigger and more sets that dont sell well enough then they will die, and no one wants that. No amount of passion and enthusism on this forum can make up for a company losing money, whether we like it or not.

With people being more choosy about which sets they buy I think quality is ever more important. Good sculpting and a lot of well thought out poses should attract customers to your set and away from the poorer competition. These days we can all see before we buy, so make your product worth having, so even those that dont collect that particular war will want it.

The future will be digital... 3D printers

Dear all.

I agree to the facts that there have been many new sets launched during the last year, some are good and some are bad.

When we decided to try making a set in plastic (our upcoming 1/72 scale medieval army on marchI) We decided to make many poses and enhange the possibity for conversions. I believe that many collectors buy almost every set which fits into the era they are collecting, being Napolic or medieval. With the new sets like the Strelets-R MINI I think that we have a perfect match between number of poses and figures, just like CAESAR. But also we can see that our new range of personality figures are quite popular as they can add some more dynamic poses to the bulk of plastic figures.

I actually think that our hobby will change dramatically within the next five years as 3D printers will become affordable for everyone, today they cost around 15.000 USD, but in five years they expect they will cost 500-1000 USD. I have seen these in action and in the near future one will just download a file with the poses and then press print... and perhaps even in colour. Then we will be able to do conversions using 3DMAX and no problems with undercuts etc.

Best regards
ValdemarMiniatures

Re: The future will be digital... 3D printers

Three years ago they were about $50000USD and up. I'm sure the resolution has improved as well. I agree, soon the induvidual will be able to produce what ever he can get or make a computer model of. In whatever scale is desired.

To Valdemar and Andrew: The future will be digital... 3D printers ... ?

Dear Valdemar and Andrew,

When you say print, do these machines make plastic figures or print paper copies? What materials are used? Can you buy the material you like, design your own poses, then presto! They pop out?

Thanks - David Hennen

Thats not impossible, the way technology is heading.

Well I'll get my IBM head back on again and I interpret that as "Flats" metal wargaming figures.

Buy base outline of figures from a figure manufacturer(metal or plastic) and select uniforms for the base figures from websites download onto sticky back paper and print.Stick "skin"/adhesive label on the metal et voila...welcome to the 22nd century

When you are fed up with the army then download another "skin" for the figure.
It could very well happen.

I sure like the grumpy smillie
have fun and

Re: Future way to sell

I ask the question, why are plastic manufacturers not thinking about doing what metal manufacturers do and sell in smaller quantity bags? ie 4 figures of same pose in a bag. We all know the figures are manufactured on a sprue but what's stopping having small sprues ie multiple 4 figure sprues per mold. You could charge the same as metals for each bag and people would buy them because that get the choice of what they are buying. 4 marching figures, 4 kneeling firing, 4 loading, 4 charging, 4 advancing, 4 command, 4 standing horses, 4 galloping, 2 x cannon, 4 artillery crew. 1 x limber, limber horses, etc... then you could have action specialty sprues (even charging at a premium price), 4 personality figures, special pose figures etc. I don't know of one plastics manufacturer that's even tried this. More standard poses are produced and less personality style and this should mean the manufacturer is not making a lot of additional figures customers won't buy (reducing unnecessary cost), They get more per figure (increased revenue) and the customer has more specific choice (encourages customer to buy as they may not buy the 50 figure pack because there's 30 figures they don't want in it.). It seems to work with metals and apart from a change in packaging I don't see how it would cost any more than the current process. Something to think about, maybe I'm way off????. My 2c worth anyway.

invoke simple military strategy

I pretty much agree Daniel.

A ROUT --
Okay this Russian Command and Hospital set has Cossack Cavalry (Irregular and impetuous) paired with Grenadiers(veterans and well drilled) and perhaps pressganged
Naval Artillery and Sailors mmhh all thrown together with General Staff Officers
and casualties, forgive me but it sounds like a rout has just happened.

try this for cohesion.

---------
Divisional Army Concept
for Big Boxes using these modules

"Infantry Brigade Box" comprising
1 Command(mini foot),1 Light Infantry, 1 Line Inf, 1 Line Artillery.

"Cavalry Brigade Box" comprising
1 Command(Mounted mini) 1 Light Horse, 1 Heavy Horse, 1 proper *HORSE* Artillery.

Army Supplements Boxes
Casualties-medics- 1 Ammo Wagon drivers

Musicians- commissariat- 1 Caisson drivers

Pioneers pack mules and 1 defense work

Artillery command/signal tower semaphore tent etc

First Aid Post/Station
----
This structured system could be good for Crimean War American Civil War and WW1 sets.

Advise Division equals
1 Cavalry Brigade
3 Infantry Brigades

Advise 1 Army equals 3 Divisions

Like you say it self promotes growth and collection.Works in metals why not in Plastic.Streleets Minis are aimed at TWargaming groups ,but they need to do something like this or their Mini plan will tumble.

Re: Thats not impossible, the way technology is heading.

Hi there Hank,
the way the plastics industry is heading, with the "smart plastic" material replacing the computer chip in the next 5 - 10 years, it would not suprise me to see plastic figures produced in programmed coloured uniforms thereby deleting the need for the paint sweat shops.
If/when that happens somehow I think the hobby will have lost something.

regards Mike McA

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

Well I'll get my IBM head back on again and I interpret that as "Flats" metal wargaming figures.

Buy base outline of figures from a figure manufacturer(metal or plastic) and select uniforms for the base figures from websites download onto sticky back paper and print.Stick "skin"/adhesive label on the metal et voila...welcome to the 22nd century

When you are fed up with the army then download another "skin" for the figure.
It could very well happen.

I sure like the grumpy smillie
have fun and

Re: Re: Thats not impossible, the way technology is heading.

When I lived in Japan, Pepsi had promotional figures of PepsiMan, various action figures, baseball players ... and Disney marketed all of their characters - all made in a soft plastic and prepainted (perfectly detailed I may add and no paint chipping and totally bendable/twistable/almost chewable). And some of these came in a little bag because they were smaller than a 1/72 figurine.

I never could find out who they were made by, only by license agreement, but likely in China. These things were give-aways for free when buying a 12oz soft drink.

Imagine being able to buy a Napoleonic army all prepainted, bendable, no paint chipping, and all for free when you buy a soft drink? Of course, thats alot of Pepsi for Waterloo!

Re: Re: Re: Thats not impossible, the way technology is heading.

Hmmm... that's not too far off of the Axis and Allies collectible figures out in the stores now, and the science fiction/fantasy ones too.

A lot of Pepsi for the Battle of Waterloo? I can, and *do* drink a lot of Pepsi, heeheeheehee!