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Mongols and Samurai

Use them as Mongols? That's what I'd do. But then again, I'm an Asian history fan....

And since when can the Mongols pass as samurai??? The armor is very different. (I don't mean to argue, I'm just trying to figure out what you mean.)

oops!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now I understand the confusion!!!!!!!!!!!!

All this time I thought you were talking about Samurai!! I saw the word 'Zvezda' and thought you were all talking about the Samurai. Duh!!! Forget what I said, I am only referring to Samuria being used as opponents to Japanese Infantry.

Isn't Zvezda's set a reissue of someone else's set?

Never mind.............

I understand now. Zvesda has Mongols, Italeri has Mongols. Zvesda reissued Italeri's Saracens. Okay, I'm up to speed now!

Re: Mongols

Mongols, Arabs and Turks besieged Vienna in 1683. Those Mongols actually came from the Crimean Peninsula at that time.

You could also let them fight Strelets Russians - GNW or Crimean War. Or let them fight all kinds of Medieval Knights.

Plenty of uses for Mongol as you can tell.

Re: Re: Mongols

Although I'm still a little confused as to why you yourself were confused....

The Mongols tried to invade Japan (during the early days of samurai rule). You could do that? Of course, most samurai sets are from 1600 or so...not 300 or more years before that.

But that was a very pivotal event in Japanese history. That's why they started using swords as their primary weapons, and where the word "kamikaze" originated. So the Mongols, although never conquering it, shaped even Japan!

Re: Re: Re: Mongols

You can use them as huns - as enemys of late rome or as socii.

Re: Mongols

Thanks for the ideas men, I like the idea of the huns, and also the siege of vienna would be fun. Civil war dinosaur's idea would be cool, but to the best of my recollection there was no actual fighting between the forces of japan and the Mongols, the invasion force was destroyed at sea by bad weather, the Kamakazi or Divine wind as they called it. What do you think of my own idea of putting the Mongols with my Persian army or could they even pass as saracens?

Re: Re: Mongols

What exactly do you mean by "Persian army"? Persian and Mongol armies fought each other from the 13th to 15th centuries AD or so. I do not assume you actually want to place Achaemenid Persians or Parthians against medieval Mongols (or are there any other figures of Persians on the market?). Medieval Persian arms and armour were heavily influenced by Turkish and Mongol fashions so, perhaps, you could turn some Mongols into Persians?
I'd also not use them as Huns. Hunnish and Mongol arms and armour were not at all the same (e.g. different swords - straight for the Huns, curved for the Mongols, different saddles, no stirrups for the huns, different styles of lamellar armour, possibly no horse armour at all even for the heavy Hunnish cavalry). If you want some acceptable Huns, you'd better try and make some conversions from HaT Goths, late Roman cataphracts or, for the bowmen, Italeri Saracens.
As for Mongols passing as Saracens, I'd say that if by Saracens you mean late Ayyubid ghulams or early Mamelukes (both of Turkish origin), you may use them with minor modifications. E.g., I'd replace the Mongol heads with Italeri or Caesar Saracen heads.

Best regards

"Mongols" at Vienna

Concerning "Mongols" (actually "Tartars", very late descendants of the 13th to 14th century Mongols) at Vienna (1683), I'd say that only the light cavalry bowmen are useful to some degree. Forget about the heavy cavalry, the Ottomans didn't use heavy Tartar cavalry (actually, there was none).

Re: Mongols

Just another suggestion, on many accounts the mongols fought the armies of the persians

Re: Re: Mongols

Good day to you again,

Yes, you are quite right about the kamizaze, or "divine wind." If I am right I think it was two or three times that it destroyed the Mongol fleet and saved the samurai from the horrors of Mongol invasion.

However, I have heard (maybe I'm wrong--after all, I wasn't there ) that they did make at least some landings. This is what I meant about the samurai sword.

In the early days of Japanese history, samurai warriors would not fight as they did later in their history. They would ride out onto the battlefield and call out to the enemy, reciting their heroic exploits and lineage (basically a pedigree). this would challenge an enemy warrior of similar status to fight with him. They would duel one-on-one with their bows, the most important weapon for the samurai at this time.

However, when the Mongols invaded Japan (I guess they did make some landings?), the samurai quickly realized that the new important weapon to be used was the sword. Thus, over time, swords (the longer katana and the shorter, smaller wakizashi ) became the main weapon, and even a symbol of samurai status.

So perhaps you could create a beachhead diorama or something of that sort? I have no ideas for Mongol boats however....

Correct me if I am wrong somebody, please.

CivilWarDinosaur

Re: Re: Re: Mongols

The Mongols landet at one of the Japanese islands and fought the Japanese there. So there was fighting in the first invasion. Tumbling dice made a nice range of Mongols and Japanese for the first invasion.

The Mongols used a lot of Korean infantry troops for the invasion.

I used the non armoured mongols for the napoleonic period too. They are useful as Bashkires and Tatares.

cheers
uwe

Re: Mongols

A lot of very helpful ideas, suggestions and thoughts gentlemen. Thank you for your time and advice.

Re: Re: Mongols

You are more than welcome!

In fact I find it therapeutic for me to talk about these sorts of things, my passions and all. I rarely get to have intelligent conversations, so really enjoyed it.

Thank you!

Re: Mongols

Check out this article:

5th-10th century nomadic hungarian army

Cheers
Zsolt

Re: Mongols

That's a wonderful link Zsolt. Wonderful photos, great painted figures full of imagination and thought. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

Re: Re: Mongols

Yes indeed, thank you! The two articles on painting WWII Germans could prove useful in the future as well.

Many thanks!

CivilWarDinosaur