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Re: Vikings shield devices

Is there anything about these figures that makes them specifically Viking? Couldn't they be equally effective as a Saxon shield wall? It seems to me that most armies of this period would have looked much the same, and the English Huscarls were established under the Danish King Cnut.

http://www.ydalir.co.uk/gallery/2004/elvaston/shield_wall.htm

Re: Re: Vikings shield devices

How about some Hundred Years War sets in a similar format?
These would nicely fill the ranks of the basic foot soldiers to complement the rather knight-heavy Zvezda, Revel and Italieri sets.

Re: Re: Re: Vikings shield devices

Dear Puppeteer,

the thinking behind these 3 sets was re-creation of a shield wall. We doubt that it was still a tactics during the HYW.
Regads,

Strelets

Re: Re: Re: Re: Vikings shield devices

Well, maybe the HYW wouldn't be the ideal fit, with all the emphasis on fairly individualistic archers, knights and men-at-arms, but certainly pike formations would also be a good fit. Seeing as you've already done Scottish and Russian pikemen, and Mini Art has already done Swiss pikemen, what about the 80 Years War in the Netherlands? Dutch and Spanish pikemen sprinking with a few arquebusiers and/ or musketeers... No one's done that that I've heard of, plus they could be almost endlessly adapted to the general 16th Century, Western European time frame.

(Of course, that isn't to say that the Swiss pikemen theme ought to be considered definitively done either... I've just this week been engaged in trying to put together the Mini Art Swiss and boy has it been a pain and a half... their engineering just hasn't been up to the tight tolerances that made the Zvezda Macedonians such a masterpiece!)

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Replying to:

Dear Puppeteer,

the thinking behind these 3 sets was re-creation of a shield wall. We doubt that it was still a tactics during the HYW.
Regads,

Strelets

80YW

My Conquistadores would certainly appreciate the reinforcements, especially to fill out the back ranks. However, I believe the bulk of the Spanish armies and "Orange" armies were made up of Germans. A good set of German pike and arquebusiers in pluderhosen could be used not only for the earlier 80YW, but also for the St. Quintin campaign, the French Wars of Religion and several conflicts in the Balkans (where pike was probably more useful than in Flanders). Of course Swiss pike are needed for your French armies.

Desparately needed are appropriate horse. I've converted a few, but we really need gendarmes, retiers and the rest. Also missing are those pesky Elizabethan English.

Re: 80YW

The 80 years War was from 1568 to 1648. This means that your Conquistadores of about 1520 to 1560 would be better off fighting with and against the Dark Dream Studios Landerschneck Pikemen, Aquibusiers and Double Soldiers. If you haven't seen these there are reviews on plasticsoldierreview.com as well as the Orion Homepage in the DDS section.

Also I believe that by the time of the 80YW that Plunderhosen were out of fashion. This style of dress was more associated to the aforementioned Landerschneck.

Best regards,


Malcolm

Best regards,


Malcolm

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Replying to:

My Conquistadores would certainly appreciate the reinforcements, especially to fill out the back ranks. However, I believe the bulk of the Spanish armies and "Orange" armies were made up of Germans. A good set of German pike and arquebusiers in pluderhosen could be used not only for the earlier 80YW, but also for the St. Quintin campaign, the French Wars of Religion and several conflicts in the Balkans (where pike was probably more useful than in Flanders). Of course Swiss pike are needed for your French armies.

Desparately needed are appropriate horse. I've converted a few, but we really need gendarmes, retiers and the rest. Also missing are those pesky Elizabethan English.

Re: Re: 80YW

I don't pretend to be an expert on this, but it was my understanding that pluderhosen came into style in the later half of the 16th century. Landsknechts were recruited by William of Orange and served for both sides in the French Wars of Religion during this time period. Old Glory outfits their Landsknechts in pluderhosen in their 25mm French Wars of Religion range.

You are right that the Conquistodore set is for the first half of the 16th century. However I feel some of the figures are, judging from Pierre Picouet's site and the Dutch prints in the NY library, "close enough" to pass for Spanish troops later.

Re: Re: Re: 80YW

Bill I think you are mistaken. The Landsnecks were recruited initially by the Emperor Maxamillion as a German equivalent to the Swiss Pikemen who at that time were arguably the best infantry in Europe. Trying to remember what I read in my Osprey Men At Arms and Warrior volumes on this subject I think they and the use of Condottori in general ceased by about 1560/1570.

William of Orange was born in 1650 that is the second half of the 17th century and his campaigns would have been 100 years after the Landschnecks ceased to exist.

The French Wars of Relegion were from 1559-1598 so some Landschneck types could have been involved at the start.

The 80 Years War was from 1566 to 1648 so coincide with the French Wars of Relegion but not with William of Orange.

So there you have it. The French Wars of Religion is one thing but the War of Spanish Succession quite another.

Best regards,


Malcolm

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Replying to:

I don't pretend to be an expert on this, but it was my understanding that pluderhosen came into style in the later half of the 16th century. Landsknechts were recruited by William of Orange and served for both sides in the French Wars of Religion during this time period. Old Glory outfits their Landsknechts in pluderhosen in their 25mm French Wars of Religion range.

You are right that the Conquistodore set is for the first half of the 16th century. However I feel some of the figures are, judging from Pierre Picouet's site and the Dutch prints in the NY library, "close enough" to pass for Spanish troops later.

Re: Re: Re: Re: 80YW

I'll respond to the Landsknechts later. As for William, there were several in the House of Orange-Nassau. The first was the Prince of Orange who helped lead the initial revolt in the 1560s and who was assasinated in 1584 at Delft. He is the Prince of Orange who was the acknowledged leader of the Sea Beggers who captured Brill in the early 1570s, and for whom the orange, white and blue "prince's flag" was named. Maurice of Nassau was his son.

The William you are thinking of is William II of Orange-Nassau (William III of England) who IIRC was the son of Frederick Henry of Nassau, another son of William I of Orange.

Re: Re: Re: Re: 80YW-My Final Comment

I can't find my Osprey Landsknects (the more recent version with the battle picture on the cover) so let's leave it at this.

Whether you believe Landsknects participated in the French Wars of Religion, the Seven Years War of the North, the conflict between Poland and Danzig in the 1570s, the early stages of the 80YW and other conflicts depends on whether you consider the German pike and shot mercenaries that served in those conflicts to be Landsknects or not. The term is used by sources to describe such German mercenaries in actions as late as Ivry. Of course it should be remembered that the term "tercio" continued to be applied to Spanish foot units long after their formation in the 1530s, when both organization and tactics had changed dramatically (just as the term "Legion" was retained for Roman foot units long after they had ceased to be the fearsome units that Caeser led in Gaul).

Enough from me on this topic.

Re: Vikings shield devices

As regards to engraved devices on the shields I think that most collectors would not want engraved shield devices since I assume that the shields will be integral with the figure and not separate. It is much easier painting a different pattern than carving the shields off the arms to interchange them with other figures.

Also at this period in history shield devices were fairly simple.

And finally, there are several companies that sell water slide transfers or decals with shield devices in various colours. In this case a flat surface is ideal to apply these. I use this technique with my Greeks and Hat actually sells specific sets of transfers for their Romans although there are other companies like Revo.

Best regards,


Malcolm