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Question on 017 Russian Medieval Horsemen

This may be a stupid question, but I'll ask anyway as I have done in many occasions before.

I am painting the Standard Bearer of Strelet’s 017 Russian Medieval Horesmen as is straight from the box. The front of the standard banner is that of the icon of a saint. What’s on the reverse side? I can't really tell. Can anyone enlighten me?

Thanks,

Re: Question on 017 Russian Medieval Horsemen

I do not think the front of the banner is a portrait of a saint, but of Christ. There is a story of a relic called the "mandylion" which was the washcloth that Mary Magdalene (I think) ised to wipe the face of Christ as he walked to Golgotha. The legend says that when she took the cloth away after wiping, an image of Christ's face was left on the cloth. The face of Christ, fashioned after the legendary relic was a popular icon on Russian flags. I've seen a photograph of WW1 Russian soldiers displaying a flag with the image in a book about the shroud of Turin.

Some, I've read believe the image on the shroud and the "mandylion" are one and the same, which I imagine would tie in with claims that the crusaders looted the shroud from Constantinople in 1204.

Anyway, I'm sorry to interrupt.

Erika

Re: Re: Question on 017 Russian Medieval Horsemen

Dear Erika

Nobody can say you interrupt with such interresting and valuable and worth reading information.

Best regards

Patrice

not maria magdalena

Hi Erika,

I was raised as an catholic, but don't know much about the bible anymore.
But I think the woman you mean was Veronica.
If I remember well this story is apocrive(not official in the bible).
I remember that my father told me that the worth icon has something to do with the name Veronica, but that may be wrong.
It's a bit off topic...
regards
marc

Re: not maria magdalena

That sounds correct. It is off topic unless we decide to relate it to the accuracy of Roman equipment in films of the crucifixtion...

Re: Re: not maria magdalena

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. Interesting story, Erika. But, any ideas what is the image on the reverse side of the banner? Would it just show the reverse of the front image or would it be a different image? I think the design on the reverse side of Strelet's banner looks different. Strelet, any comments?

Thanks again everyone for all your help.

Re: Re: Re: not maria magdalena

I think the back of the flag should have the same design as the front. I usually just snip the flag off and print out a paper flag to glue to the pole. here are a couple of links in case you are interested. http://fanaticus.org/DBA/guides/banners.html
or http://wwwangelfire.com/ak5/alexflags/russia.html
Hope this helps.
Dave

Re: Re: Re: not maria magdalena

Hi,

The design on the back of the flag is clearly an angel... I opened up my pack of Russian horsemen and got out my reading glasses, and it's definately an angel.

I would suppose it would be the Archangel Michael, warrior angel of heaven and patron saint of soldiers and policemen (I was raised Catholic too). I'd read that during the war against the Poles in the Ukraine in 1648-54, Bogdan Khmielnitsky's banner was emblazoned with the image of St. Michael, so I think it would somehow make sense that his image would be on Russian banners from further back in history, back even to the Byzantines who regarded Saints Michael and Demetrius as the patron saints of soldiers.

Hmmm... I don't think I was too far off topic in my last post, maybe I strayed just a little, since I was talking about icons in Russian flags, an important feature in an army display.

Cheers!

Erika

Re: Re: Re: not maria magdalena, or other icons

Hi Dominic,

In case you might be interested, other icons I've read of or seen pictures of on Russian banners would be, besides Christ, the Madonna and Child, Saint Michael, and Saints Boris and Gleb.

One could use wargaming flags or try using a copier or printer to reproduce icons in books or from the internet, and reduce them to the appropriate size. Naturally one would want to select Orthodox icons or Byzantine ones. A friend of mine did just that once for a unit of Napoleonic Russian militia and it looked surprisingly good.

I would guess that the icons would be stiff, with cloth tails fluttering in the breeze. I did see a picture from an old manuscript depicting a battle between Novgorod and Vladimir (I think) where an image of the Madonna and Child was held aloft like a Roman vexilla.

I do hope this will help.

Erika

Re: Question on 017 Russian Medieval Horsemen

Erika:

Many thanks for your response. You are apparently a better Catholic than me. Now that you mention an angel, I can see the outline of it and it makes perfect sense. I think you are right on this. Any one out there with a different theory? Again, interesting story on the banner. I don't think we are off the topic here. I'm always glad to learn a bit of history through these "toy soldiers/scale figures" and have this forum to exchange information and ideas.

Thank you Dave C. for your suggestions on paper flags. I usually do not use paper flags on my figures (to cut down cost)and try to do it by hand. They're definitely not as pretty, but it gives me a another kind of challenge and I am still trying to improve my painting skills. As I said previously, I am going to paint this as is straight from the box with no modifications.