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Re: Strelets World War I cavalry series

Crud-I have been trying my best to keep from getting too deep into WWI, but Strelets is leaving me no choice. Guess I am going to have to acquire more Airfix/HaT Germans, plus someone for them to fight. Don't think my Airfix/HaT French and my HaT & RPM Renaults would be quite correct.

To PSR: Flying Pace - I like Strelets horses

Dear Dave,

as usual I am totally excited to read your latest review and this time, I figured, I'd do some research myself. So I learned something about horses....

PSR writes:'As usual this is a mixed bag, with some very good poses being overshadowed by some very poor ones. Our frequent complaint about the impossibility of horses galloping from one side to the other has not stopped Strelets from continuing to produce this impossible gait.'

The 'impossible gait', is also called Flying Pace or Tolt.

The Pace is a two-beat gait where the two legs on the same side of the horse move together. As in the trot, two feet are always off the ground, but in the trot, the two legs diagonally opposite from each other move together. The trot is more common, but some breeds of horses prefer to pace. Pacers are also faster than trotters on the average.

The true two beat pace is rather uncomfortable for riding, as not only is the rider going up and down, as in trotting, but also side to side, like riding a camel. A stepping pace may have been the gait sometimes used for transport of wounded.


Please see for yourself:
http://www.gaitedhorses.net/Articles/Pace/Pace.shtml

Re: To PSR: Your research is superb, mine isn't.....

Bummer ....I looked at the Strelets horses again....and while they're beautiful animals, I guess the first two of them are more than acrobats, they're out of this world....and exist in phantasy only.

While I concede and admit that my research was flawed, at least I'm in good company...nice horses, Strelets.

modify? & horse bones

Dear Jan
I don't think your research was flawed. Looking at action photos of horses was done by Muybridge in the 19th c.
Back to the models
If you cut and bend either a foreleg or hindleg at the base or from the base and modify the hoof you will probably get a reasonable gait. The neck and head can also be twisted to the right or left. I haven't tried it with an Uhlan figure but I have modified one of the Boer W. Brit Lancer's set horses in this way. I think the problem with poses 1 & 2(PSR) is that the left hooves are too flat on the ground for a gallop. If we sprint we tend to keep our heels up and minimise our contact with the ground. Some of your trotting photos show similar with a horses' legs.
Horses have bones similar to our humerus and femur but very high up. The part that bends about half way on the foreleg is the carpus a bit like our wrist and on the hindleg is the tarsus or similar to our heel bone. Most think they are elbow and knee equivalents and this leads to confusion (then compounded to - the front the knees and the rear the elbow). Ask a friend to point to a horse's knee. They will probably point to the carpus unless they are a vet, horse whisperer, wrangler, etc. The patella, kneebone is at the top of the hind leg. This probably explains why these faults occur in horse anatomy and gaits.
Easily remedied.

Re: Strelets World War I cavalry series

so sad no Turkish ww1 cavalry

Re: Strelets World War I cavalry series

The "Green Color" theme for Russians is good. I hope the S*R Team comes back to thier original "Formula for Success" of independent colors.

Re: Strelets World War I cavalry series - question about use of cav in WWI

The Uhlans look great. I was under the impression that cavalry wasn't used after 1914 due to the devastation of the machine gun. How often was cav used in the war, and were the massed charges of the past still being used? I can't imagine a lancer getting too far in no man's land.

Thanks,
Scott

Re: Re: Strelets World War I cavalry series - question about use of cav in WWI

In the overall scheme of things mounted cavalry was not used much in WWI. However it was used in the very early and late stages on the Western Front, and a bit more often on the Eastern Front. There were a number of clashes involving Russian or Austrian cavalry, and on at least one occasion a cavalry fight between these two. However you are right, charging any sort of infantry usually meant barbed wire, machine guns and artillery, and though some charges took place the results were poor or nil and the cavalry casualties often extreme. So these cavalry sets are not fundamental to WWI, but then others have already done those sets, and you can always invent a few what-ifs like what if German cavalry had broken through to Paris in 1914.

Re: Re: Re: Strelets World War I cavalry series - question about use of cav in WWI

Also during the major British offensives, Britsh and Commonwealth cavalry were always on standby behind the frontlines in case of a breakthrough.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Strelets World War I cavalry series - question about use of cav in WWI

There were a lot of cavalry-fights at the Turkish-British front. So Firet is right - a pitty not to have Turkish cavalry. Fighting the Sanussis in WW1 Italian, Egyptian and more British cavalry would be interesting too.

cheers
Uwe

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Strelets World War I cavalry series - question about use of cav in WWI

In fact there is precious little for this side of the war. Apart from Hat's Turks there is nothing except Hat's Gallipoli Aussies. We need British and Indian infantry plus some Arab irregulars for both sides as well as the promised camel cavalry. I think British Cavalry for this campaign would have been different to that for the Western Front.

Cavalry in Mesopotamia and Palestine was the most successful of all, so if it were up to me I would have started with cavalry for this area.

WWI Successful cavalry

Not as well known, but the record of the French cavalry in the Balkans in 1918 was about as good.

Re: Re: Strelets World War I cavalry series - question about use of cav in WWI

Looking at my copies of "The History Of British Cavalry" volumes 5 to 8 which cover WW1 I have found:

Volume 5 - Palestine and Egypt
Agagia, 26th February 1916 British vs Senussi
Romani, 4th August 1916 British/ANZAC vs Turks
Magdhaba, 23 December 1916 British/ANZAC vs Turks
Beersheba, 31st October 1917 British/ANZAC vs Turks
Huj, 8th November 1917 British vs Turks
el Mughar, 13th November 1917 British vs Turks
Abu Shushe, 15th November 1917 British vs Turks
Abu Tellul, 14th July 1918 British vs Turks
El Hinu, 14th July 1918 British vs Turks
Birket el Fuleh, 20th September 1918 British vs Turks
Haifa, 23rd September 1918 Indians vs Turks
Semakh, 25th September 1918 ANZAC vs Turks
Irbid, 26th September 1918 ANZAC vs Turks
Haritan, 26th October 1918 Indians vs Turks

Volume 6 Mesopotamia
Shaikh Saad, 6-8th January 1916
Wadi River, 13th January 1916
Ramadi, 28th September 1917
Action at Daur, 2nd November 1917
Tikrit, 5th November 1917
Khan Baghdadi, 26th March 1918
Hadraniya, 29th October 1918

Volume 7 Western Front 1914
Audregnies, 24th August 1914
Néry, 1st September 1914
Moncel and Vieux, 7th September 1914

Volume 8 Western Front 1915-1918
Bazentin Ridge, 14th July 1916
Villers Faucon, 27th March 1917
Monchy, 11th April 1917
Cambrai, 20th November 1917
Action of the Mhow Cavalry Brigade, 1st December 1917
Falvy, 23rd March 1918
Collézy/Villeselve 24th March 1918
Moreuil Wood and Rifle wood, 30th March-1st April 1918
Second battle of Le Cateau October 1918

An technically not WW1 but in the epilogue
Chanak, 12th July 1920 - British vs Turks

That seems quite a lot to be going on with.

Re: Strelets World War I cavalry series

you & me both brother! i have been after HAT for years about their plastic color preferences. unfortunately, people like you & I are in the minority when it comes to the wargamers/painters (who shouldn't care what color plastic figs are made in but have to have everything their way & request neutral colors so the don't have to prime their soldiers 1st!) as far as to who manufacturers listen to! Strelets & Orion have been pretty good about making opposing colors or national/uniform colors. wish others would follow suit!

Re: Re: Strelets World War I cavalry series

There have been a lot of interesting replies! British
and Australian horsemen made several notable charges
in Palestine during World War I - the charge of the
Light Horse at Beersheba comes most quickly to mind.
So sets of these would be very appropriate. And also
Turkish cavalry.

I know there was quite a bit of fighting between the
Turks and Russians during World War I, but how much
of it involved cavalry I can't say.

Hat is planning on a set to represent the Australian
Light Horse, but it will have only a few poses, so it
won't be as useful as it could be. There are still a
lot of World War I sets that could be made. The war
was an artillery war, so how about some sets of the
bigger guns?

Re: Re: Re: Strelets World War I cavalry series

For all of Stelets World War I cavalry sets a second set with dismounted soldiers would be greatly appreciated.

Re: Strelets World War I cavalry series

Will the Britsh be early war (Peak Caps) suitable for Mons, Le Cateau and Nery or Late War (Steel Helmets) suitable for Cambrai, Amiens and 2nd Le Cateau?