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Just a couple of quick questions with all the artillery sets now avalable I notice that the Limber riders of Italeri wear short Hussar style boots. Is the correct because they are limber riders for horse artillery or should they wear the large cavalry boots as moulded with the Zvedza and Hat sets?
Second question, In PSR they state that the long tailed coats worn by the Zvedza and Italeri Limber riders is incorrect. Do they mean incorrect for the period dictated or were short tailed coats worn throughout the Napoleonic period? Personally I would have thought that for the early period at least up to 1807 the Long tailed Dragoon style coat depicted would have been correct so that with bicorns these figures could represent this earlier era.
As I mentioned in earlier threads I will be backdating at least 1 set of the Zvedza artillery to the AWI period where a long tailed coat is depicted in one of the pictures in the Osprey book about the French army in the AWI.
I hope that some of you will be able to answer my two main questions above.
French artillery train got uniforms in about 1800 - before that civilian train riders were hired for each campaign, so there is no back dating for the AWI - you need civilians for that, Albrecht Adam shows in his Moreau's army a very nice train rider of 1800, a back view - already with short coat tails, interestingly this rider wears cadenetts and also a light cavalry sabre, indicating maybe that he was employed in the horse artilery boots - cannot be seen, there he has buttoned overalls.
I read that the drivers were civilians but in the Osprey book of the French army in the AWI there is a picture of a French Royal Artillery Driver in a uniform that is: Dark blue Jacket and Breeches, Red Turnbacks, Sky Blue Collar, Cuffs and Lapels, White gaiters. This figure has a long handled whip like the artillery drivers in the Revell Austrian SYW set. Obviously wearing gaiters rather than boots suggests that he is a wagon driver but I will paint up the Svedza riders in this uniform.
This uniform of the Royal-Artillerie waggon drivers is according to the 1776 regulations. Apparently, the 1779 uniform was slightly different. See same Osprey title, p.18.
Thanks, I'll check that tonight. But since the Zvedza artillery riders are going to be my starting point any small change in the uniform would probably only make it more like those figures, that is a little more modern in appearance. I assume that these limber drivers would be in a similar uniform and anyway I have no likely figures of mounted eighteenth century civilians apart from the Airfix George Washington and the mounted officers from the two Imex sets. For the same reason the AWI French uniform depicted by Italeri is pretty darn close to the Habit Long of the Napoleonic period. For this reason by swopping the heads with Zvedza Saxon cuirassiers I have made French Engineers of the Guard with the helmet and middle to late eighteenth century cuirassiers although I haven't decided on their final destiny, one of the smaller German states, Prussia or Austria. Previously I produced Russian cuirassiers with the Esci French as a basis (the Russians and also the Austrians wore both back and breast plate when fighting the Turks).
The main difference between the 1776 and 1779 uniforms for waggon drivers appears to have been that the latter had no lapels. So, converting the Napoleonic drivers into Ancien Régime drivers will probably require more than just swaping heads. To get an idea of how the French wagon drivers were dressed in the field I recommend you try to find an illustration of Van Blarenberghes's "Siege of Yorktown" paintings. He painted two versions. The 1784 version on the far left shows a caisson d'ammunition drawn by a four-horse team accompanied by a driver. The 1786 version has another vehicle also accompanied by a driver who appears to be wearing roughly the same dress as the driver from the other painting. Clearly, the dress is quite different from that shown in the Osprey title (cloaks?). A close-up of the 1786 version is shown here:
Not cloaks, but redingotes, rather.
Where do you see them, I only see gunners, according to my knowledge there were no uniformed artillery drivers till about 1800.
I see now, not in the colour plates but on page 16, interesting, I have to look at other sources.
Perhaps, one should try to find out more about the drivers' status. Possibly, drivers were still contracted civilians but nevertheless were issued uniforms (similar to musicians)?
Strange, the "Driver" in the Osprey has infantry gaiters and doesn't look at all as a mounted train soldier - the whip aside
I agree , that'2 why I initially thought that he is a wagon driver but I still use the same uniform details for the mounted drivers. Also with those long handled whips used to control the unridden horse its not easy to know the difference. In my case for the wagon drivers I have the Italeri Napoleonic French although I think that the large cavalry boots need to be carved down to represent gaiters. Little by little I am getting this AWI French army together. Now I want the corresponding Spanish to retake Minorca from the British with the aid of the French. With these armies I can never understand the interest if you are a non-painter since my joy comes in part from the variety of colours used in the various armies.
At that stage of research I would not dare to come to any conclusion for artillery train in the AWI.
Also on page 18 as a back view of the uniform where it is mentioned that in 1779 there were no lapels. I think that maybe although not officially part of the army they may have been uniformed. A little like when you go into the big department stores that the staff wear a uniform so that you can locate them quickly.