Lol, your thread title did give me a giggle!!

But you make a great point Donald about using paint washes. They do help to bring out detail when it seems it has been hidden or is just a little subdued. A good example would be when using a flesh wash on faces of figures. So long as the detail has been sculpted nicely and has come through the moulding process fine, its amazing what difference using flesh wash makes. One caveat is that if the detail is really vague from the off however, long before paint has got near the figure, thinned paint or wash cannot do the manufacturers job. Whether that be facial features or uniform buttons/lace etc. It wont suddenly make the figure grow a nose!
I have always found Strelets figures generally have very good facial features, along with other detail, so they seem to come through the paint/wash process really well.

I have not gone into the realm of using various Vallejo etc coloured washes, but have tended to focus on just using flesh & umber wash on my figures. I have used pale wash, but thats more for when I am painting grey/white horses. I have also found that if after painting the figures have a slight sheen to them, the wash will help dull it down further to a more acceptable matt finish.
Even though they are Napoleonic so uniforms had brighter colours than modern armies, I went for the more darker look of umber wash for my figures.
I thought that considering the conditions a uniform would have endured, even in the short period of the 100 days campaign in 1815, a uniform wouldnt look quite so brightly coloured. Long marches through mud or dusty roads, caught in rainstorms, potential bleaching from direct sunlight & of course the smoke from muskets/rifles & artillery, would all take their toll.

Graham, maybe try a combination of slightly thinned down paint and then a wash over the top of the figure. Also, make sure small amounts of paint isn't congealing into your brush, especially during hot weather. Even if using thinned paint, I still find it worthwhile to clean the brush between doing each figure or two. So for example, say I am painting white leather belts/straps on some infantry, the matt white paint will likely be thinned down a little bit, but after I have done the belts on a figure or two, I clean the brush before using the paint on the next figure. Its just an extra thing I personally do to make sure thick paint isnt getting on the figure & it also prelongs the life of a brush. During cooler weather, its not needed as often, but I still clean the brush after every 5 or 6 figures.

The Vallejo Pale Grey Wash (73.202)?
This is the most amazing product.

I do, of course, endorse your entire post. Lots of wisdom there. Can I add that Graham, & all of us, have to find our own standards, our own methods, our own approaches? I will never be a "master painter" but that's OK. I sometimes wonder if the internet, filled with amazingly painted figures, doesn't put more people off than it educates & encourages.

donald

Hi Donald;

I wash every week, even when I don’t need it!!😂

I HAVE used Citadel inks and whatnot but was unaware if the Vallejo range. I used Citadel’s ‘Nuln oil’ to turn my white painted horses into greys (with some further detailing later!) quite successfully but I probably haven’t thinned them enough in the past.

What do you thin them with please? Water? Washing up liquid?

Best wishes and thanks!

I love the thread title -fame at last I guess!

Graham

Agreed Donald, we all have our own methods & standards. No one method outways another. As long as our armies are painted up to a standard we ourselves are happy with, thats what matters. Its good to find out what others do though, what their experiences are, as there is always a potential hint or tip we may not of thought of. When faced with painting so many little men......anything that makes the job easier is a bonus!! And I get what you mean about seeing the work of others. Sometimes its very inspiring, sometimes it can have the effect of making you feel quite inadequate! But personally I think the contributions are worth it though. Seeing Chris Dodsons pictures of his Waterloo refights were actually my inspiration for getting back into the hobby 🙂.

Graham,
Yes Vallejo have their own wash range. Black, pale grey, red, blue, green, sepia, umber & flesh. Like anything, have an experiment and see what colours you think work best for your figures. I tried them all before settling on the 3 I now use. These should not require any thinning as the washes should be of a quite watery consistency from the off if they have been made right. They still require a good shake though.

As for thinning acrylic paint in general, I personally use washing up liquid (Fairy liquid... although other brands are of course available!!), but others just add water to the paint.
Its basically a case of seeing what works best for you personally. Try both methods, see what you feel is better. Maybe eventually, you might even discover another way of doing it. I can honestly say, painting figures has been a journey & learning curve. And I dont think I will stop learning either.

I recently used some of the Army Paintr Speedpaints on some Mycenaean Spearmen, and some cyclops. I'm sold. I used the Peachy Flesh over a white undercoat and I think it looks great. I don't even feel the need to muck about with it further - apart from some tattoos for the 'clopses.

With regard to washes - I'm writing this in the bath, does that count? I use mainly Games Workshop, because I know them. But I also use a home-made 'dirty' wash. 50/50 black and chestnut ink, mixed into 10x the amount of matt medium, some water and a couple of drops of odourless washing up liquid.

I use this for horses, buildings, armour, armoured vehicles, pretty much everything, it's cheap and it works.

Steve, I'm not that impressed with the Citadel contrast paints but, as you write, the AP ones show promise.

I think I now spend more on paint, brushes etc than I do on figures.

donald

I thought very carefully about these paints.

A couple of years ago I went into a GW 'store' and made the fatal error of saying that I wanted to know about Contrast paints because I was thinking about buying some to sample them. The sales assistant just started telling me loads of stuff I didn't want to know, upselling products and generally spewing so much information at me that my head spun.

I know GW Washes - I have used them since the days of Chestnut Wash (still got some of that, very useful colour), so I'm quite happy with them but from everything I was seeing about 'slap chop' and so on, it looked like it would be worth trying contrast types of paint again.

I watched everything I could on YouTube - good and bad (youtubers - a tip - shut up and get on with it, rattling on for ten minutes about what you're going to do before you do anything at all is not good technique). In the end I decided to get some of the AP paints to try out.

Previously I would undercoat a figure - sometimes in white, and then paint thinned Vallejo Sunny Skin (I used to use airbrush thinner to thin paints, from now on I will use washing up liquid - good tip, thanks!). Over this I wash GW Reichland Flesh Shade (being sure to get the Matt version). I usually go back and high light the figure with the Sunny Skin.

I did a unit of these Trojan Spearmen (not Mycenaeans as per my previous post).


White undercoat, painted the figures' skin with AP Peachy Skin and wallop! Very happy with that. Quick, no fuss, lovely. Still stuff to do on them but overall, I'm quite pleased with the results so far.

I have also used the AP paints mixed with GW and Vallejo paints and GW washes, and can't see any problems.

So far.

What I am interest in seeing is what happens when you paint metallics over these Speedpaints. Normally I do metals over a black undercoat. I am curious as to what happens if I paint AP black over the armour and then do Vallejo Bronze over that (after a suitable drying time of course).

As indicated by the various expert contributors to this thread, "one man's meat is another's poison".
So if I recommend the Army Painter Quickshades, keep in mind they may not work for you.

The "place the entire figure in the can" method is not for me but the dropper bottles allow you to control your washing:

https://www.amazon.com.au/Army-Painter-Warpaints-Quickshade-Wash/dp/B09GYRJHNH
The Soft & the Dark get the most use from me.

As Roger writes, no thinning required. However, I often use their Wash Mixing Medium:

https://www.amazon.com.au/The-Army-Painter-Quickshade-Mixing/dp/B078S5M4TZ

This isn't needed to thin their wash but to moderate the strength of the colour. I use a Quickshade "straight" for a dramatic effect, or moderate it with the medium for a more subtle effect.

Again, as Roger writes, you need to experiment & see what suits you.

And finally, keeping in mind I am an average painter, you might like to see some of my work over at Bennos:

http://bennosfiguresforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=173&t=26373

Thinned paint & washes by Ochoin (that's me). Montrose's troops tended to get stronger washes hence they are darker than the more gaudy Royalists.

cheers, donald

Loved the witty subject line Donald and further fun that it generated. A hearty laugh over a morning coffee!

I have nothing on you mob with your fancy army painters and washes!#.

I have two minor points that may be of use (interest). Likely not, but oh well!:grinning:

1. A tip that I was many years ago is to thin paint with de-ionised (DI)/distilled water rather than tap water.
I'm not too fussed during painting, but always use DI water to thin the stock of paint.
Like Roger, perhaps more so in our warmer location, washing brushes is a regular requirement for me. I simply use my wash jar of tap water (plus a little dissolved paint residue, depending on when last changed!). A drop or two off the washed brush serves to thin the paint in my 'palette' as and when required.

2. A decant a little paint at a time into a 'palette'
A tub/bottle of paint goes a long way when painting these small figures so I shake (and stir if in a tub rather than a bottle) before putting a few drops from the stirrer (usually the 'handle' of a worn paintbrush) into a well of one of my 'palettes'. These are simply used pill blister packs, which I have acquired in the hundreds over the years of saving from family and friends. I cannot paint quickly enough to use them!


Anyway, thanks again for the hearty laugh and interesting insights on a hump day morning,

James


#I'm happily stuck well and truly in the 80s and 90s with black undercoat (Payne's Grey), base coat of main colours, black acrylic ink wash (with a drop of Pledge One Go added to increase viscosity) and then highlight/dry brush.

Good on you, James. I am pretty well in the same 'stuck in the past' approach to painting. OK, so I've progressed beyond shiny enamels, although I do still have a stock of 'smelly' Humbrol pots and use them occasionally, but the world of quick-paint washes etc has left me behind.

So, I wash a little, and only when necessary. The rest of the time it's good, fairly solid (sometimes thinned) colours over a dark base coat. Works for me, anyway.