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Re: The Viking wars of Alfred the great....

The only set of Vikings on horseback in plastic was a set of 6 made by a company called Giant probably in the seventies. In a recent tv series on Alfred the Great called the Last Kingdom, mounted Vikings are shown. A set of mounted Vikings and perhaps Saxons would be super welcome.

Re: The Viking wars of Alfred the great....

The quality of the horses could be better than you would expect, there are several references to Anglo Saxon stud farms and selective breeding being ruined by Viking theft and general pillaging etc. In later years these were moved away from the coast and estuaries to limit or even prevent Viking theft.

Re: The Viking wars of Alfred the great....

"I understand that until the arrival of the medieval 'destrier' heavy warhorse, bred specifically to carry an armoured knight, most horses in Europe - including Norman horses - were small by today's standards. Small, but sturdy. So any sculpts showing these smaller sized horses would be appropriate for any figures for the period up to, say 1100 or 1150."

Thats right smaller horses/ponys, were the norm until the heavier breeds made an appearance, what with eventually needing something capable of taking the weight of a man plus the armour. So yeah I agree with you that smaller looking horses should be in sets such as Alan is suggesting.

Thinking about it further, people themselves were much shorter the further back in history you go, so maybe that also played its part in what size mounts they used?

I too cant imagine swinging a top heavy weapon like an axe about being a helpful thing onboard a horse!!
Mind you, those early horsemen have my total respect.
Riding a horse with a mind of its own amidst a battle, maintaining your balance, fighting the enemy, and all whilst managing a sword, shield & the reins!!
They must of been some of the most (if not thee most) skilled, multi tasking horsemen in history!

Re: The Viking wars of Alfred the great....

Re: the two handed axe discussion, Ancient and Medieval cavalry weaponry is a problem across the board, especially for non-HaT sets.

According to my charts, if one were to hypothetically purchase one copy of each set available in pure 1/72 plastic (i.e., pretty much needs a PSR listing) for all pre-1500 AD or so eras, you would end up with 1,130 non-command related riders who in my opinion are viable in some way or another (so completely inaccurate sets such as Lucky Toys' Huns were removed for instance, as well as completely unviable poses when present). Here is how that overall total breaks down:

Cavalry Archers- 166 (14.69%)
Lancer/Spear Cavalry- 470 (41.59%)
Javelin Armed Cavalry- 126 (11.15%)
Swords, All Axes, Maces- 368 (32.56%)

Generally speaking before c.1500 AD most cavalry would have only used their one handed weapons as secondary implements, with lance/spear and especially ranged cavalry being the most potent (ranged cavalry never caught on quite as strongly in Europe, but in the rest of the Medieval world they were usually present and in many cases dominant). So here we can see that while some of the figures are nice, it is arguable as to how useful 32.5% of the provided poses actually are even in this group that has been controlled for quality. This can make it quite difficult to gather numbers of cavalrymen armed with their primary weapons for many pre-1500 AD eras. 24 sets provide 7+ quality lancers/spear riders, which is ok, but only 6 for javelin armed cavalry and 5 for cavalry archers can claim the same (Strelets Turcopoles make the latter list). This does not even take the provided horses into account at all, which as you guys already mentioned adds another layer of difficulties.

So there is much work to be done for pre-1500 AD cavalry in general. Curious to see what the future brings! :sunglasses:

Re: The Viking wars of Alfred the great....

Well I hope you ancient/medieval fans get some great new sets soon.
Think that era is well overdue for some attention.

Re: The Viking wars of Alfred the great....

The book and author (Paul Hill lecturer and author of all things Anglo Saxon) is at pains to point out these were not cavalry who generally did their fighting on horseback , these are mounted infantry , using horse to get from A to B quickly , to get out of trouble more quickly than they got in to it, although by the contemporary description of the rout after Edington it can only be interpreted as some of Alfred`s army did indeed fight on horseback when an opportunity arose ie a fleeing broken enemy formation.

Re: The Viking wars of Alfred the great....

Anglo Saxon and Viking "Cavalry"

Persuing a defeated enemy mounted does not make them cavalry or even capable of fighting from horseback as a horse has a mind of its own and you have to get used to its quirks, you should note also that the Normans brought their mounts (exclusively stallions) with them with good reason as they would have been used to them and trained for battle... transport to and from a battle and persuit for an untrained mount I doubt would be a problem, but untrained horses do get frightened quite easily.

Dont forget if you can afford a mail shirt (Norman 1040ad cost 7 pounds/silver "Cnut" Lawson Pg37) you could easily afford a mount to ride to battle...

On two handed weapon use from horse back, been done since the hellenistic era using the lance two handed I would guess like the horse its more a case of training...

There is a 12th century Medieval medical treatise that deals with treatment for dislocated limbs and head injuries mostly caused by "warriors" falling of or being thrown from their horses...

:wink:

Re: The Viking wars of Alfred the great....

In reference to Alan's post, his Anglo-Saxon sources make sense to me. It is an interesting topic that academics have been arguing about for a couple of centuries now, as it is hard to definitively prove. Artwork (particularly the Bayeux Tapestry) is notoriously unreliable on this front, so a clump of horseshoes on a proven Anglo-Saxon/Anglo-Norse battlefield sure would be nice. :joy:

I think the mounted riders would not fit Strelets' current 1066 themed line very well (the majority percentage of the current sets wear too much armour to be very viable for pre-11th Century scenarios, although a few poses can naturally be cherry picked), but would be an option if they want to branch out to something earlier. This could be something like the famous Lindisfarne raid or, as you noted, the life and times of Alfred. I would be TOTALLY for that, although I don't think Strelets are too inclined toward pre-1700 AD sets anytime in the near future.

Which, if you guys at Strelets are reading this, I am honestly fine with. Frankly I would support some re-stocks on your current Medievals over producing more sets, particularly the crossbowmen (STRM025) and Muslim sets (especially STRM013-14).

Until then, it is Empire: Total War time! LOVE that new British Artillery set, the guns and gunners look amazing. I think you guys are up to the challenge of a limber and carriage, but we shall see. Either way, great work! :grin:

P.S.- In terms of Ancients/Medievals, the Linear-A phalangite masters look VERY promising! If those can be gathered together and put into a nice looking formation it would easily put them in the running for the best pre-1500 AD set of the past five years, if not ten!

Re: The Viking wars of Alfred the great....

Alfred The Great. 38x Great grandfather of my wife... and probably most of us, but in her case I can join the dots...

Re: The Viking wars of Alfred the great....

Wow, we can go back to about the time of the English civil war, after that nothing,proof of our commoner roots.

Re: The Viking wars of Alfred the great....

Afraid my family's roots are purely Norman. Which would explain our penchant for seaside landscapes, global oriented wanderings, and having a random axe lying around the house at all times. So, thanks King William of Normandy!

P.S.- Wonder if anybody called him Willie?

Re: The Viking wars of Alfred the great....

His mother perhaps....but I wouldnt of wanted to of been someone to "test the water" by calling him "His Royal Willie"!!

I want to do my family tree eventually. I have heard all sorts of snippets of information, tales and folklore!!

Re: The Viking wars of Alfred the great....

Royal Willie :joy: :joy: