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Re: Standard Bearers & Musicians for c.2500 BC-1492 AD Armies?

TheBabylonian109
Am I crazy or is there an apocalyptic lack of appropriate standard bearers and musicians for virtually every ancient and medieval era in pure plastic 1/72? (Sorry, not a fan of resins). For those brave few of you who delve into pre-modern topics, if a needed command & control figure is missing do you just convert the guy with the tallest spear into a standard bearer and hoard all the drummers, horn and trumpet blowers that can be found or is there another method I am missing?
4,000 years give or take a few is a very long time, and many armies will have come and gone and been lost (literally) in the sands of time.....

When I last looked quite a few ancients sets do in fact include a standard bearer (and often a musician), and the expedient of converting a figure to become a standard bearer is quite easy except where a specialist symbol mounted on a pole is required.

Re: Standard Bearers & Musicians for c.2500 BC-1492 AD Armies?

If I feel one is neccessary I usually drill out a hand and use a brass rod for a standard pole. I have used punched plastic-card discs for sun discs and Green Stuff for horse tail standards before now.

Re: Standard Bearers & Musicians for c.2500 BC-1492 AD Armies?

With apologies for slightly hijacking the thread, more standard bearers etc. for after 1492 would be good too. One standard bearer for a whole box of British Napoleonic infantry is about 3 less than ideal. I don't suppose there is any prospect of getting special "command" sets - like a certain other manufacturer does?

Re: Standard Bearers & Musicians for c.2500 BC-1492 AD Armies?

Perfectly acceptable, all music and insignia is accepted here. :grin:

Re: Standard Bearers & Musicians for c.2500 BC-1492 AD Armies?

As requested, an example:

Based on my calculations (which admittedly are not perfect, as I do not own all the sets and am mostly going off of PSR pictures), there are 49 total sets which contain at least one standard bearer or musician for an era dating between 622 AD (first year of the Islamic calendar, so my preferred place to split ancient from Medieval) to 1492 AD (a very subjective date to end the Medieval, but works especially well for the Americas and Spanish).

Ten of these 49 contain a mounted musician, with Strelets offering five of them (012, 017, 070, 092, 093), HaT two more (8248-49), Italeri one (6124), and Zvezda the final two (8036, 8039). Given that the five Strelets sets are rather difficult to locate and one each of the HaT, Italeri, and Zvezda offerings are blatantly intended for Islamic, Mongolian, and Rus based cultures respectively, that leaves exactly two more or less readily available sets (two poses total) to cover all the mounted musicians for Catholic European factions from 622-1492 combined.

Re: Standard Bearers & Musicians for c.2500 BC-1492 AD Armies?

My apologies, STR006 has a mounted musician as well.

The Babylonian & Colin T. are both correct.

Possibly the biggest problem with collecting 1/72 plastic figures: too few command figures.

Does anyone remember how Caesar ( a company I do love) put Egyptian musicians & standard bearers as bonus figures in unrelated sets? I came close to hating them over this.

donald:smiley:

Re: The Babylonian & Colin T. are both correct.

Paint dog
Possibly the biggest problem with collecting 1/72 plastic figures: too few command figures.

Does anyone remember how Caesar ( a company I do love) put Egyptian musicians & standard bearers as bonus figures in unrelated sets? I came close to hating them over this.

donald:smiley:
I accept that lack of command figures is a problem for wargamers who need a command base for every 16 or so figures.

However, the other side of the coin is the actual historical ratio of standard bearers, commissioned officers and musicians to NCOs and Other Ranks; the proportion is generally much lower for almost all units than an 'average' wargames unit.

The ideal would be 'mini-boxes' of extra command sprues, allowing those who need lots of command figures to have as many as they need....a table-top resplendent in a multitude of banners, colours and standards.

Re: The Babylonian & Colin T. are both correct.

Minuteman


The ideal would be 'mini-boxes' of extra command sprues, allowing those who need lots of command figures to have as many as they need....a table-top resplendent in a multitude of banners, colours and standards.

Ouch! A distinct (& I'm sure good natured) dig from Minuteman.

Did I ever tell you that I once had a regiment of mounted Napoleons (from figures from the Italeri set) that I would put on the wargaming table, jocularly, if my beloved French were losing?

donald

Re: The Babylonian & Colin T. are both correct.

Paint dog
Minuteman


The ideal would be 'mini-boxes' of extra command sprues, allowing those who need lots of command figures to have as many as they need....a table-top resplendent in a multitude of banners, colours and standards.

Ouch! A distinct (& I'm sure good natured) dig from Minuteman.

Did I ever tell you that I once had a regiment of mounted Napoleons (from figures from the Italeri set) that I would put on the wargaming table, jocularly, if my beloved French were losing?

donald
Entirely good natured, and merely an observation, donald. I am a firm believer in the 'It's my army and I'll do what I want to' approach, and plenty of flags on the table-top does look good...even if this is sometimes (in my view) a bit over-done?

A Regiment of Napoleons? Sounds like a show-stopper so far as any Russian/Prussian/Austrian/British/Spanish etc opponents might be concerned. I bet this French unit had sky high morale and charisma, but was this enough to overcome well-ordered British infantry positioned on a reverse slope and supported by a couple of excellent KGL cavalry brigades?

Re: The Babylonian & Colin T. are both correct.

A regiment of Napoleons? My god, the world could barely handle one. :joy:

I think the latest format that Strelets uses for the Nappy "standing shoulder arms" (or whatever they are called) sets is great for most eras, mostly grunts with 2-4 command figures. My ideal 1066 set would be something like 3 sprues from STRM003 with one third of a sprue consisting only of the standard bearer, main commander, and hornblower poses from STRM141. This holds true for cavalry as well, which seems to be where the biggest problem with pre-1789 command figures is.

In fairness to Strelets they are among the industry leaders in providing such poses, so thanks! :sunglasses:

Re: The Babylonian & Colin T. are both correct.

TheBabylonian109
My ideal 1066 set would be something like 3 sprues from STRM003 with one third of a sprue consisting only of the standard bearer, main commander, and hornblower poses from STRM141. This holds true for cavalry as well, which seems to be where the biggest problem with pre-1789 command figures is.



As I think you'll agree, Ancient & Medieval sets generally have too many figures wearing armour & not enough carrying spears.

I will have to confess to Minuteman, though, that I dearly love a standard, banner and flag & probably have too many, too big in all my armies, shy of the C20th.

donald

Re: The Babylonian & Colin T. are both correct.

Yes, indeed. For 1066 it is technically possible (although not ideal) to get away with this because so many of the characters involved were high ranking elites that did have quite large armoured retinues, but for virtually every other realism based scenario it problematic. A set of unarmoured Vikings (no helmets even!) and/or civilians in the future would be most welcome to balance things out a little, but for now I am making do with the Eagles Games Norse villagers and dwarves.