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Baggage mules and camels.
Here's another vote for mules.
Since no manufacturer coould supply all the men leading those mules, which standard poses would you convert except for marching infantry?
The standard officer pose (waving with or without pistol / sword) springs to mind but leading donkeys was not exactly officers' work.
Cavalry sets usually do not contain horse holder poses. Artillery crew might work, thinking Airfix French "Waterloo" Artillery. Regards, Pa
I've just looked at the Jacklex mules but they're for a Colonial Indian Mountain Gun set, quite nice but surplus to my requirements.
I might make few suggestions to other producers, after there's surely a demand for accessories such as mules for virtually all periods, ACw, WW1 etc.
A company called Early War Miniatures produces some interesting ranges, with more unusual subjects so maybe I'll suggest they do a generic mule set..........
Stay safe folks
Don't if they could be adapted but some of the medieval and Roman transport sets from Strelets and Linear A contained miles.
The mules from Airfix-Set German Mountain Troops (2. WW) can be useful.
Easy to get ..and cheap on ebay..
Very interesting discussion in regards to mules and the need for such in 172 scale.
I had noticed this web site previously and it provides a comparison of the range of mules and donkeys by a range of different manufacturers in our preferred scale.
A few Monday mulish musings on animals for wargames and dioramas.
If I remember rightly, towards the end of WW2 the Germans were even using horses and mules to tow ME 262 jets around to save fuel and resources - a juxtaposition if ever there was. The Americans had problems operating early jets in Korea so I wonder if they used animals alongside labourers?
So, it seems to that the animal side of things is vastly underrated in the hobby, except for a few in figure sets which makes it a n expensive way of getting them.
I'm making a few wishlist suggestions, casting my bread upon the water, and maybe it'll come back with a little butter, even jam, if enterprising cottage industries decide to fill in niche market gaps.............
Stay safe folks
Quick follow up. The Donkey Sanctuary Charity provides a tribute to mules and horses especially in WW1 and 2 with a look at their roles and noting how highly prized they were!
I would love a set of 18 mules with harness that could be used in towing artillery, wagons, or carrying loads. Just mules, nothing else. This is one of those sets that comes up every now and then and has for 25 years. HaT talked about making one, and several other companies but no one actually steps up and makes them.
My Imex wagons are great, but they need 4 to 6 mules each to tow them.
US Army used a lot of mules because mules are stronger than horses.
Metal model mules are way too expensive to buy compared to plastic mules.
Mike Bunkermeister Creek
Bunker Talk blog
Essentially all you neeed is a covered generic load to attach which can suggest a gun underneath or almost anything else plus a few pairs of small gun wheels, and maybe some mules with saddles (the load fits over the top if required), any walking or standing figure could be used as a handler so their not really needed, artillery crew or marching figures etc would do... its the mules that are missing...
"... its the mules that are missing..."
Graham Korn mentioned it above ...
and for those who aspire to higher quality (not to be found on this forum):
I can't believe it ...
I guess that means your glass is half full then :smile:
the missing point is that these mules are only available part of sets.
I think many people are aware of these sets, but some of us are looking for generic mules only.
If we buy complete sets at around £10 plus P+P, I for one will be left with the rest of the figures etc that I can't use and will have to be binned or take up valuable space!
So, the need still remains for generic mules without buying complete sets from Strelets, Jacklex or anyone else.
Stay safe all
Hey, I thought you were such a big fan of Strelets ... just buy the sets they've already made and you'll get the mules which are already there. And, maybe, your unselfish generosity will enable them to produce a set of nothing but mules in the future ... :smirk:
Buying a full set of plastic figures to get four mules is not cost effective. Metal mules would be cheaper. If I only need 8 or 12 I might consider doing that, but I need dozens of mules, maybe hundreds.
A US Civil War battery of four guns needs 6 mule per gun, so 24 mules. Do the math, way too much money. And that's only one batter, and does not count the dozens of other wagons and guns in my collection needing mules.
Strelets makes excellent mules those showed in the photos are perfect, but a set of 16 mules and no figures would be great. I would be happy if they were those exact mules used again.
This sounds like a perfect question for the next "One Question Poll"! lol
I support the need for a new dedicated mule train set. Yes, mules are available in earlier sets. However, not all of those are still readily available. For example, a quick search of Hannants reveals that only Strelets sets #117 and #132 (so 2 sets out of 6) are available today from Master Kunz's list.
And, yes ok, a more extensive search may or may not show the other sets may be available from other vendors and from, of course, our old friend Mr. eBay. But for example, Nikolai mule team does not show as listed/available to me in the eBay Canada site. As others have said, buying a set for 1-4 mules + shipping cost is not cost effective from any source.
So, to me also, it makes sense to spend the same money to buy a set containing at least 12-18 mules in 4-6 poses plus accessories such as crates, bags etc. These I would want for my Chindits, in their jungle war against my tropical Japanese. I also want some with only saddles (for an officer/NCO, or to form an entire mounted troop for my French Foreign Legion riders). Indeed, as others also stated, a generic set of mules could be used for a variety of campaigns from Ancient times to the 20th Century.
I would be quite happy to have Mr. Strelets blow the dust of their old mule sculpts, enhance them accordingly, and release a generic set of these (maybe even marketed as "WWII") with their next batch of best selling eras/campaigns such as Napoleonic, and War of Spanish Succession which many many people clearly buy, but I do not.
well others have beaten me to it on cost effectiveness question. Again the Nik-Olia sets only came up for America when I had a quick look so the cost would be prohibitive for fragile resin.
As I;m now a pensioner I have to budget carefully! I also do a little part-tiime work on a self-employed basis so I understand the economics involved in producing figure sets.
Hence, I'm thinking of cottage industries who can fill in the gaps in our wishlists, maybe even producing to order, such as the new process of "plastic printing" from Butlers printed models.
As for being a big fan of Strelets, of course I am! Though I'm sure they have much bigger fans!!
I've been buying ever since I discovered Strelets many years ago now. But again I can only buy so much, and in the periods that interest me.
For example, I have limited interest in Napoleonics, and currently none in SWY. so, I'd like to see expansion of other ranges and periods.
Stay safe folks
It strelets released a mule company set with saddled mules and extra loads they could then combine the mules from their various sets to produce a stand alone mule set... providing of course the tools are still viable, eventually they will need to make new tools anyway if they want to keep providing collecters with these kind of sets...
So probarbly more a case of whether or not strelets consider there is enough demand for a standalone mule set with a production run of a few thousand, but watch out cos it sounds like Mike Bunkermeister Creek might nab a good proportion if they do! :smiley:
That is a danger that I might grab a good number of them, but being retired means I have to save up a bit.
Mike Bunkermeister Creek
Bunker Talk blog
As a quick fix, I took my Atlantic 7th cavalry horses (HO/OO scale), trimmed down the hair and used them as makeshift mules for my FFL riders from Strelets. The left over Strelets camels will be converted and used as a baggage train. I transferred the 7th Cavalry riders to Eagle Games' civil war horses - this also helped give the impression the riders were more 1/72 rather than HO/OO scale.
Mon morning mule musings again - persistence pays!
Good news for all who want mules.
I contacted Paul of Early War Miniatures with a wish for mules and he's come up with the goods!
He supplies mules as sets of Indian Mountain Guns etc, but he's happy to supply them separately without loads, just moulded on harness!
He also does camels. I'll shortly be placing an order with EWM - they do lots interesting stuff, WW1 & 2, interwar and scenics etc.
Hope this helps folks.
Stay safe and Carry on Collecting!
Thanks Richard. They do have a lot of interesting stuff indeed. After searching the website thoroughly I could find a statement that read "most of our products are designed for 20mm". I looked at several products, but sizing and scale confirmation was not described on any of them. Thus, I am reluctant to purchase if their products are closer to HO/OO scale than 25mm (1/72). Is this the case? Thanks in advance
Well, I would say that they are roughly 20mm. Fact is I rarely buy metal and then only to fill in gaps left by plastic manufacturers!
I have only placed a couple of small orders with EWM, mostly for guns and vehicles from their Italian range.
I find that 20mm metal generally seems to run a little larger than 1/72 scale plastics. But as I say I don't buy many. For example I recently got an ACW set of artillery and their site says that figures were origionally designed to complement the Airfix ACW figures. I had a few free sample figures and I find they're a little taller than plastics! Then again people and animals come in all sizes and shapes! I had a look at mules online and they vary somewhat in size etc.
Given the difficulty of finding mules I'm not got worry too much about slight scale differences but this a matter of personal taste!
You can look at online images, such as the Indian Mountain gun set including 5 mules (WW1) and see if other people have thoughts on scale and maybe get a better idea. You could even try emailing Paul with questions - that's how I discovered the mules!
Being almost retired I have to watch the budget carefully but sometimes when there's not much choice I have to take a chance!
To sum up, when there no alternatives I use metals to fill in the gaps and I don't worry too much about small differences in scale. That's my personal thoughts and views, which may well be different to others such as yourself.
Anyway, I hope this helps.
As ever stay safe.
I'll be ordering a dozen mules at £1 each in a day or 2 so I'll give you my impressions for what they're worth!
I'll also order a couple more items suchas Jap artillery and motorcycles!
I did ask about scale but Paul didn't comment on that so it's up to you to do a little research and decide whether they're for you.................
It's certainly a unique marketing approach to keep the scale of your product lines somewhat mysterious, and seemingly continue to be secretive in response to customer queries!
I do look forward to hearing your analysis once you get them.
Well a quick internet search finds some interesting comments on scale. An earlier commeent by Paul on Benno's Forum says that according to PSR 20mm covers oo/ho to 26mm! But generally 1/72 scale, and mentions compatibilty with ranges such as Armourfast.
In the articles section there is interesting background especially on Aussie troops.
So far as I can see the scale is 20mm, roughly equivalent to 1/72.
I typed in EWM 20mm scale? so you can see what you come up with!
Hope this helps. I'm going quiet for a while as I have much to get on with but I'm sure I'll be back soon.
Stay safe folks
Hi again Baratheon and all!
Good news is that the mules have finally arrived!
First impressions are that they are a good 20mm or thereabouts, as previously noted the size of mules, and indeed horses and other animals can vary considerably. I'll compare and check later but they may even be a shade small.
Other points to note are that they are all one pose (12) and have moulded on harness and frame but that can sanded off. I'm sure I'll be getting more mules and indeed other items from EWM as budget permits. For my purposes, currently carrying/towing Jap artillery I think they'll be most satisfactory, at a very reasonable £1 each plus signed for post.
That's my thoughts - hope you find them useful.
Stay safe and Carry on Collecting folks!
I nearly missed this - buried under an avalanche of SSW and Nappy threads it was!
Good to know. Maybe if possible, could you please post a photo of those mules with a 1/72 scale rider, and/or next to their 1/72 counterpart one day?
Also, do you (or anyone else) know where to get loose 1/72 scale ammo boxes/crates, blanket rolls, grain bags etc. (for mules/camels to carry)? I was thinking of using putty etc. for bags, rolls but I'm sure someone must have made accessories such as these...
Thanks in advance
A set of transport mules in plastic would be excellent!
I was surprised to read this on wiki:
"The mule comes in all sizes, shapes and conformations. There are mules that resemble huge draft horses, sturdy quarter horses, fine-boned racing horses, shaggy ponies and more"
So you can make horses more "mule-like" by increasing the size of the ears.
The Spanish army in the early 20th century used mules and both sides in the SCW made extensive use of them for general transport and for disassembled mountain guns. Here's an example of a big mule at the time of the attempted coup in July 1936 (bit blurry but white animal in the centre)
70mm infantry/mountain howitzers were broken down into 5 loads:
105mm mountain guns were broken down into 7 loads:
Briefly, it's interesting to see these comments on size which confirms my brief Wiki research on mules!
So, maybe scale isn't too important, after all 1/72 scale covers quite a lot of ground, depending on manufacturer's interpretations!
Re mule loads, it may be worth looking at EWM's Early WW2 Italian range, showing mules with various loads of machine guns, general packs etc.
Hope this helps!
Stay safe folks
Hi again Baratheon
The bad news is that I'm not really into photography - I might have a go one day but I have absolutely no idea how to post photos online!
As for accessories, offhand I've had a quick look at EWM again. I think it was the early war British accessories, but you'd better have a good trawl through for yourself.
Paul has a complete supply dump, barbed wire, oil drums crates etc, and various packs.
If I remember right some mules, usually as complete sets have loads of machine guns, mountain guns and possibly loads such as baggage.
You can always email Paul.............
Hope this helps
A very quick at a couple more companies I buy from finds vehicle accessories and stowage. Check out Section Head Quarters Miniatures (SHQ) packs, also S&S Models accessory packs. I think a number of companies produce accory packs in resin and metal, you might also check out Frontline Wargaming.
Again hope this helps!
Frontline now do figures including a Jap mule handler and mule - somebody out there's listening!
Must close for now