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Re: Here come the Prussians

Do people genuinely replace figures they have already got painted and finished? Sounds like madness to me!

Re: Here come the Prussians

Yep they do, me included sometimes.
It all depends on how much of a improvement a new set is over an old one. If its only slightly better than maybe not. But if the new set blows the older one clean out of the water & fits in to what you want to use it for then yes.

For example, Strelets ACW range compared to perhaps Imex.

Problem is when you see a new set painted up by someone and then look at your older version and think...."oh". Even if it has been painted up to the best of your ability. Even happens when I look back at sets I first painted and compare to newer paintwork. They often have to get repainted. Suppose its a sort of plastic soldier OCD!!!!
Can be very deflating. And the more you try and ignore it, the more you keep feeling an urge to buy the new set!

Re: Here come the Prussians

Philip Ball
Do people genuinely replace figures they have already got painted and finished? Sounds like madness to me!
Yes, I am slightly mad too but sometimes it is a 'no brainer'.

I still have many hundreds of painted Airfix Napoleonic French infantry and cavalry; the Cuirassier set was one I had dozens of and I used it to create not just armoured cavalry, but also converted to make dragoons, lancers, even British Household cavalry, Dutch/Belgian Carabineers etc etc in the days when there was nothing else much available. They are part of my past and I keep them because I was once very proud of them...and still am proud of them to an extent. But there are now better, much better, figures around.

When something significantly better comes on the market, then it is time to retire the 'old guard' and bring on the new so far as I am concerned. Why otherwise would anyone have still a version 1 smart 'phone when we are now at, say, version 10??

If in any doubt so far as figures are concerned, compare the Plastic Soldier Review profiles for the Airfix 'Waterloo French Cavalry' (Cuirassiers) set with the newer and significantly (that is, vastly!!) better Zvezda French Cuirassier set.

The same 'then and now' comparison applies to comparing the old, "loved at the time but now not so loved", HaT Prussian dragoons set with the excellent new Strelets set.

We just now need 'Prussian Dragoons In Advance' please.:slightly_smiling_face:

Re: Here come the Prussians

Philip Ball
Do people genuinely replace figures they have already got painted and finished? Sounds like madness to me!
With a very high probability, the answer is yes.
At least in my case, improved sculpting & detail and richer & better pose-variety often leads to replacing older & less attractive formations/units.
Since the respective Hät & Italeri sets are not particularly well-done, I'll happily replace them with the upcoming Strelets ones.
If hobbyists wouldn't regulary update their armies, imho the market would've been totally saturated in the early 2000s already. Thanks to hard working manufacturers like Strelets the quality level increases continuously. Quite obviously, this development is gratefully received by many customers.

Totally agreeing with comments regarding possible "in advance" sets. Would be fantasic, if Strelets would try this concept with the major napoleonic belligerents. If successful it could also apply to their hopefully succesful Kabinettskriege-range. WSS at the moment, but hoping for an appropriate SYW range in the long run... .
:wink: :sweat_smile:

Re: Here come the Prussians

Philip Ball
Do people genuinely replace figures they have already got painted and finished? Sounds like madness to me!
The old figures never get replaced. They may be supplemented by newer recruits but will always stand ready to enter the field of battle. As an example my Airfix French painted around 1975 will stand along side my Hat/Esci/italari/Strelets French all collected and painted over the 40+ years.

Re: Here come the Prussians

I can see the figures now, lovely thanks.

Re: Here come the Prussians...and a thought about a 'cavalry in advance' pose??

Great figures, and a great innovation with the extra civilians. Strelets deserve 10/10 for these new Prussian cavalry sets!

A thought: For future cavalry sets (of nearly any era) a really useful pose for both diorama-builders and also wargamers would be a 'Cavalry in Advance' pose. This was once known (by the likes of 25mm metal manufacturers eg: Hinchcliffe, Minifigs etc) as 'cavalry at rest'. It is in fact a pose with the rider with drawn sabre resting on his shoulder (or lance held vertically), with his horse trotting forwards (ie: not galloping, or charging, or attempting take-off). This compares with the batch of Prussian cavalry sets which are, perhaps, described as 'Cavalry at Ease'??

This 'Cavalry in Advance' pose is extremely useful both for building dioramas, and also to create realistic table-top units. Cavalry of almost any era would spend much more time standing in ranks or moving gradually rather than charging, and yet so many sets in 1/72 have horses which look as if they are in the final stages of a Grand National horse race! Not really very realistic.

Would be great to see some future sets in this 'In Advance' pose from Strelets: More Prussians? Austrian Napoleonic cavalry?; WoSS French Line cavalry and/or dragoons?; Seven Years War Cuirassiers? The list goes on....:smiley:

Re: Here come the Prussians...and a thought about a 'cavalry in advance' pose??

Minuteman
Great figures, and a great innovation with the extra civilians. Strelets deserve 10/10 for these new Prussian cavalry sets!

A thought: For future cavalry sets (of nearly any era) a really useful pose for both diorama-builders and also wargamers would be a 'Cavalry in Advance' pose. This was once known (by the likes of 25mm metal manufacturers eg: Hinchcliffe, Minifigs etc) as 'cavalry at rest'. It is in fact a pose with the rider with drawn sabre resting on his shoulder (or lance held vertically), with his horse trotting forwards (ie: not galloping, or charging, or attempting take-off). This compares with the batch of Prussian cavalry sets which are, perhaps, described as 'Cavalry at Ease'??

This 'Cavalry in Advance' pose is extremely useful both for building dioramas, and also to create realistic table-top units. Cavalry of almost any era would spend much more time standing in ranks or moving gradually rather than charging, and yet so many sets in 1/72 have horses which look as if they are in the final stages of a Grand National horse race! Not really very realistic.

Would be great to see some future sets in this 'In Advance' pose from Strelets: More Prussians? Austrian Napoleonic cavalry?; WoSS French Line cavalry and/or dragoons?; Seven Years War Cuirassiers? The list goes on....:smiley:
I 100% catagorically agree with this idea!!!!!!!!

Napoleonic Cavalry such as 1815 British/KGL Light dragoons and British/KGL Hussars are definately in need of a worthwhile set. For a lot of the battle of Waterloo, these guys helped hold the flanks, or manuever along the line to help provide cover. So charging poses arent really helpful for that type of movement.
French Hussars, line Chasseurs post 1812 and also line lancers for the same period, with as minuteman said, lances held up rather than at the charge would be fantastic.
Then as said, the Prussians need the "at the walk" treatment too. Swords drawn, walking forward.

Waterloo Dutch/Belgian Carabiniers and Hussars are also missing in 1/72 scale. There are light dragoons out there but again these are in a charge.
With the Dutch/Belgians having differences in uniforms, a 50/50 split in a box might be a more suitable idea. Like the aforementioned Hat Netherlands dragoon set. I think a box for each of the 2 nations would be asking too much. So Netherlands Carabiniers,Hussars or light Dragoons in boxes with half Dutch and half Belgian inside would probably be the way to go.

The late war stuff is more what I personally would like to see, but in fact all nations of the entire Napoleonic wars would benefit from good Strelets cavalry using Minutemans suggestion.

If you wanted to do light cavalry using their carbines, it would be better to put such poses in a "reconaissance/picket duty" type set.

Re: Here come the Prussians...and a thought about a 'cavalry in advance' pose?? YES!

Absolutely, yes.

I am trying to avoid sounding like a grump but these Prussian cavalry aren't much use to me for wargaming.

That's not to say that they aren't lovely figures or that people shouldn't buy multiple boxes but they're not for me (personal opinion).

Minuteman & Roger are correct. I'd buy boxes of Nap. cavalry in the classic sabre on shoulder pose (not to mention SYW cavalry if Strelets ever moved in that welcome direction).


donald


BTW poor Strelets must get sick of people like me complaining. I reiterate: Strelets are doing a marvellous job.

Re: Here come the Prussians...and a thought about a 'cavalry in advance' pose?? YES!

I too agree about the "in advance" pose as preference to the charge but I'll take whatever I can get.

The suggestions for filling the gaps in Napoleonics are also great, but I'm not sure if even strelets can cover everything. Certainly the British KGL Hussars need looking at, h a t has promised us Netherlands carabineers so who knows.

As for changing figures as better ones appear, I'm afraid that's me all over. The only Airfix I have left from all the various types I collected in the seventies, are the British Horse Artillery. They have their problems but have no competition in plastic. Last year I made the difficult decision to retire all my Airfix British infantry and replace with Strelets British/Highland in advance. It keeps me out of the pub at least.

Re: Here come the Prussians...and a thought about a 'cavalry in advance' pose?? YES!

James

As for changing figures as better ones appear, I'm afraid that's me all over. The only Airfix I have left from all the various types I collected in the seventies, are the British Horse Artillery. They have their problems but have no competition in plastic. Last year I made the difficult decision to retire all my Airfix British infantry and replace with Strelets British/Highland in advance. It keeps me out of the pub at least.
Difficult decisions, but necessary in the name of progress!:wink:

The Airfix RHA was/is arguably the best of their Napoleonic sets, and I still use it. The guns are a bit iffy, but the crew are good and the limber plus team is full of life.

I had a bit of a mental tussle last year when I was replacing my British/KGL 1815 line-up; old Airfix, newer HaT (Peninsular set with head swaps) or newer still Strelets? In fact, in the end I couldn't bear to 'lose' many of the Airfix British Infantry, so have retained many of these - re-based and in some cases re-painted.

So despite the fact that 90% of my Napoleonics have been replaced with better figures in the last 5 years, a couple of the old Airfix sets still have their place. Some old soldiers never die, they sometimes just get a new lease of life....

Re: Here come the Prussians...and a thought about a 'cavalry in advance' pose?? YES!

Indeed some of the old Airfix sets remain in my army too.
The British Infantry set and Horse Artillery being the most numerous, the Infantry mainly due to the fact that there still isnt a good British 1812-1815 infantry "action" set out there in my opinion. Sure Strelets have done their excellent sets, I have some marching, and attack boxes with the odd at ease etc box, but they cant be formed into squares or firing lines. And so the Airfix sets continue. The Revell set was good but that is long long out of production. Italeri's newer 1815 British is ok but a lack of fixed bayonets and mixing the box with a load of poses which only represent the 28th, wasnt a sensible idea.
As mentioned there is no other real British horse artillery in plastic. The old esci/Italeri set was ok but the figures tunics had tails when none existed. Then of course there is no horse team or limber.

But the obvious "golden oldie" is the Airfix Prussian Landwehr. If you want these guys in various action poses, this is still the best set. The Hat action set is good, but with mostly advancing poses within it, it doesnt lend itself to a close quarters vicious and bloody fight within Plancenoit.

Re: Here come the Prussians...and a thought about British and Highland infantry

Yes, the story with late Napoleonic Wars British infantry is somewhat similar to that of French infantry ie: no-one has yet quite managed to make the perfect set(s).

I did like the Revell British infantry set, but as with many of the Revell sculpts the heads were way too small; when I decided to re-use my old Airfix Waterloo British infantry (rather than HaT Peninsular set) I realised that I had plenty of HaT Belgic shako heads left over...so my British Guards Brigade is now Revell figures with HaT heads; it distinguishes them from the 'ordinary' British line infantry! And the HaT heads make them look more 'normal' and in proportion.

I'd say that the challenge is there for Strelets to take: A couple more British (and Highland) infantry sets for 1812-15. One, 'In defence' (for modelling squares); and one 'Firing Line' (for seeing off those pesky French columns with massed musket fire)....2 x sets of Line infantry in Belgic shakos; 2 x sets of Highlanders.

PS: Yes, the Airfix Landwehr were great, but very small: such a shame they were not produced as 23mm or 24mm figures.

Re: Here come the Prussians...and a thought about British and Highland infantry

Agreed with the British (& French) problem of no real good set for 1815 and i'd also agree with the set ideas of defence/square and firing line that you suggest.
Cavalry at the walk, British in square & firing line, you certainly have the right ideas Minuteman!

Yes the Airfix Landwehr do come up a bit smaller which is a shame, but its the only set with such a active range of poses which suits a fight in and around Plancenoit.

Re: Here come the Prussians...and a thought about British and Highland infantry

Agreed on Airfix Prussian animation, and lack of height, but for me their equipment was too perfect, and of course bayonets in scabbards were never seen. The arrival of "H" sets of Landwehr prompted a huge project to replace 1800 Airfix. I haven't yet convinced myself that these need replaced again by a further 1800 strelets :0s

Re: Here come the Prussians...and a thought about British and Highland infantry

It also seems that a lot of 1815 British Infantry sets have wings on their shoulders and thus represent flank companies. To my knowledge only the Airfix and Revell sets show the center companies, though I could be wrong.

Re: Here come the Prussians...and a thought about British and Highland infantry

Yep they dont have any wings.
Ideally any set would have both centre and flank companys represented in the correct ratio.

I think British red coat light infantry all had wings though.

Re: Here come the Prussians...and a thought about British and Highland infantry

Roger W
Yep they dont have any wings.
Ideally any set would have both centre and flank companys represented in the correct ratio.

I think British red coat light infantry all had wings though.
Dear Roger,

The centre companies had those 'tufts' on the ends of the shoulder straps. Only the centre companies had the bigger 'wings'.

'Retire' old figures? Never! For me, new figures simply add to the old, be it variety or to increase numbers for larger games or smaller figure to man ratio.

For the bicentennial we did a game of Waterloo with as many Airfix on the table as we could. I'd like to do it with all infantry (at least) represented by Airfix figures and love the idea of 'phoney' Wateroo with all the British (and perhaps allied infantry) represented by Highlanders, for the pure fun of it...

Regards, James

Re: Here come the Prussians...and a thought about British and Highland infantry

James Fisher


'Retire' old figures? Never! For me, new figures simply add to the old, be it variety or to increase numbers for larger games or smaller figure to man ratio.

For the bicentennial we did a game of Waterloo with as many Airfix on the table as we could. I'd like to do it with all infantry (at least) represented by Airfix figures and love the idea of 'phoney' Wateroo with all the British (and perhaps allied infantry) represented by Highlanders, for the pure fun of it...

Regards, James
James,

The photos of the bicentennial Waterloo that you staged and which are shown on the Avon Napoleonics site are quite magnificent, and the large numbers of well-painted Airfix figures is noteworthy. It is good to see these very famliar figures standing the test of time and continuing to look good on the wargaming table.

My figure collection is large but finite, and so I have to set some limits on numbers! I 'think' my late Napoleonic French have circa 35 infantry battalions (average 20 figures per battalion) - although there may be a certain unit creep with a few more Young Guard battalions, so lets say 40. So, around 800 figures in the French infantry; that is quite a lot, and with cavalry and artillery added takes the total for this particular army to well over 1,000. But over time it has not proven to be particularly arduous or even expensive to replace/renew most of these. If you like collecting figures (as I do) but have to limit your armies, something has to give. :grinning:

I do continue to use 'old' Airfix figures elsewhere in my collection...although I cannot now bring myself to continue using the old French Waterloo cavalry set I'm afraid.

Re: Here come the Prussians...and a thought about British and Highland infantry

Hi James

Do you mean the British Light Infantry (such as the 51st & 52nd) had tufts as well? Ive only seen images of the light regiments with shoulder wings for all companys.

I am aware of line regiments having tufts for center companys and the Grenadier/Light companys having wings. I thought Light regiments were different.

Or have we got our wires crossed? As when i made my comment about no wings, I was referring to the Airfix & Revell Waterloo British Infantry sets as per a previous comment.

If someone could indeed confirm whether the British Light regiments had just shoulder wings or also had companys with tufts, id be greatful as I plan on painting the 52nd Oxfordshires soon. Also some images show them with white belts, some with buff. Does anybody know which it is supposed to be?
Thanks

Re: Here come the Prussians...and a thought about British and Highland infantry

Roger W
Hi James

Do you mean the British Light Infantry (such as the 51st & 52nd) had tufts as well? Ive only seen images of the light regiments with shoulder wings for all companys.

I am aware of line regiments having tufts for center companys and the Grenadier/Light companys having wings. I thought Light regiments were different.

Or have we got our wires crossed? As when i made my comment about no wings, I was referring to the Airfix & Revell Waterloo British Infantry sets as per a previous comment.

If someone could indeed confirm whether the British Light regiments had just shoulder wings or also had companys with tufts, id be greatful as I plan on painting the 52nd Oxfordshires soon. Also some images show them with white belts, some with buff. Does anybody know which it is supposed to be?
Thanks
Dear Roger,

Ah, sorry, I did not read your post correctly--don't know how! My apologies. Yes, light inf. all had the 'wings', as you said.

Cheers,

James

Re: Here come the Prussians...and a thought about British and Highland infantry

No worries. 👍

Re: Here come the Prussians...and a thought about British and Highland infantry

I too have a large contingent of Airfix figures, most are still usable & dont look out of place with newer figures.
The only Airfix sets i wouldn't use anymore is the french cavalry & Line infantry as they are looking well past their sell by date,though i do like the cavalry man standing holding the horse & I have a stand of ten of these poses & are looking out for more.