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Haha yes i know of the forum you speak and the thread you mean!!
Yes, its not my current project but i will never say never for the future. The run of the mill ACW artillery does seem to need better representation. Summer type dress would be different to whats out there.
I totally agree. The current stuff out there is not that good at all. A smoothbore napoleon gun would be much needed, as well as a smaller parrot gun than the one that strelets released. The figures in the set were good, but the guns were mostly unusable. I use the old airfix cannons for the three inch ordinances, but the figures aren't that good. For smoothbore napoleons I use the revell british Napoleonic artillery. There hard to find now, but there the closest looking smoothbores out there. I'd really like to see the parrot guns done in the right size, 10,20 pound range because they were more easily seen on the battlefield than the current 30 pounders now.
Funnily enough Minuteman I flit between the forums too and know of the post you are referring to as I started it. :smirk: While I agree the timing of getting such a set is probably more likely with Strelets. They have all but stopped advancing the ACW sets. I've lobbied on here a few times now for completing the range with suggested sets of Zouaves, Confederate cavalry, Confederate foot command, Western style union and the like but while it hasn't been said no, there hasn't been any apparent movement either. A pic of a master figure of some sort might show some background work is happening but alas nothing at this time.
I'm just not sure they
1. would be interested in producing more ACW artillery, otherwise why not produce the most common ones in the first instance.
2. technically capable of doing it.
Now pt 2 might seem a bit harsh but lets be honest. Artillery isn't really something Strelets do often or have done very well in the past. The current whitworth carriage is an IMEX copy with some minor conversion, to the point that you can still see the connection points on the carriage from the IMEX sprue on the version on the Strelets sprue. The wheels are identical and as I pointed out on a previous post here when they were first shown, are 12 spoked when they should be 14. Even the 30pdr Parrot carriage should have had wheels with 14 spokes but we got a pair with 16. Its the attention to that sort of detail that is missing.
I purchased only one set of each mainly for the crew because the guns weren't really of any use.
That said if Strelets indicated they were up for the challenge to produce the common pieces properly I'd more than happily support it. I need lots of guns and I'm sure others interested in ACW would also respond accordingly. My thinking is a page out of the Perry book needs to be taken. Gun barrels of 12pd Napoleon, 12pd Howitzer, 3 inch, and 10 pdr parrot. These were the most common. Consideration for gun crews being of Loading, Aiming and Firing, not dissimilar to the MAC type approach for infantry. You could get away with all this in a single box or two boxes if you wanted to split between Confederate and Union. Limbers would also be great but Strelets have never produced any that I'm aware of. Could be a box on its own with a caisson. It really comes down to whether Strelets have the appetite for more ACW artillery.
Thank you Neilad!! Now I appreciate who started the post on the other Forum.
You have clearly thought about the issue in depth and petitioned for it. Nineteenth century artillery from the middle of the century (ie: Crimean, ACW) onwards 'comes of age in the industrial age' so to speak, and maybe this does suggest the need for a high degree of technicality and precision that goes beyond the more usual soft plastic 1/72 kit. In other words, perhaps it is better to think of this as a hard plastic kit proposition.
I believe that the market is there. Someone might, just might realise what the potential is for really good and accurate 1/72 artillery pieces for this period and later. I believe in the meantime that there are 20mm metal options out there, but I don't know if these are in fact too small; they are certainly much more expensive per gun.
As I said in the original thread, this is not my current or even mid-term project, but it's a period that I will follow with interest. And, not least, Chris Dobson's Antietam 1862 project via Bennos.
But...Now it's time to get back to a 'simpler' world of smoothbore 6 pounders and 3 pounder battalion guns...those Zvezda Great Northern War artillery sets for the early 18th Century won't make themselves....and Marlborough's armies need their guns!
This is an interesting topic not the least because of my ongoing planning, research and construction for Antietam.
The availability of decent plastic artillery for the ACW along with crews, in order to keep costs down, is very limited indeed.
The Stretlets crews produced are most useful but unless you are engaged in siege work the 30 Pdr is redundant and the Whitworth was more of a novelty value in terms of pieces deployed.
You make an interesting point regarding the Speira carriage length.
The Italieri teams are ok for Fredericksburg and Stones river but not much else on a practical level.
The Speira pieces do look good and Hagens 12pdrs with crews by Massimo are also good value. E bay U.K. does a good deal with two cannon and crews for about ten pounds.
It would be nice if Stretlets did venture into this area with perhaps barrels for 12pdr , 3inch rifle and 10Pdr Parrotts on a standard carriage.
With nice crews I am sure they would receive a good welcome.
I've been watching your progress. We too are planning for an Antietam showdown. I've been busily preparing terrain. Currently completing roads (which will be used on other gaming projects) cornfields, ploughed fields and fencing. Haven't started buildings as yet. Getting units together so the Strelets figures will feature in many of these.
I have some of the cannons from Massimo but the carriages on these are actually too big also. I note that they are modified Art Miniaturen guns and the Nap barrel is way too long.
If you are looking for good metal pieces where the wheels (14 spokes) and carriages are in 1/72 scale I would recommend Jacklex 20mm. The figures are old school but the guns are nice and true to scale. The Napoleon from memory is the correct length but I can't find the one I had so can't confirm. It apparently also comes with a 10pdr Parrot now and I think that may be close also.
A close second would be the RSM95 and relatively cheap for metal. The barrels are probably a touch small. The wheels are a good size and carriage the correct length. You will have to space the wheels a little further from the carriage to get the correct width.
Hopefully Strelets are ok with me posting links to these. Here's a photo that has both of these and a Revell/Accurate carriage.
You'll note the Italeri Parrot barrels. The Napoleon barrels are from RAFM 25mm guns. They are correct length for 1/72. I put the Massimo gun in the middle just so you can see how much bigger the gun and carriage are. The wheels are correct though.:laughing:
If Strelets were to look at this again I'd recommend they look at doing the carriage with more detail and also don't take the easy option of 12 spoke wheels. We definitely could do with some more crew. I suggest in either Loading, Aiming and Firing poses. The current ones provided don't cover any of these fully. You get a bit of each which makes it hard to put a full crew in one action together. These are my thoughts anyway.
Thank you for the great analysis, Neilad. This will help me greatly when I (eventually) get around to creating 1/72 armies for the 1862/63 campaigns in the eastern states. Partly on the back of the recent discussion, I am now reading Stephen Sears' very fine book 'Landscape turned red: The battle of Antietam' (2003 edition).
I am intrigued and pleasantly surprised by your reference to Jacklex and the accuracy of their 20mm artillery model. They are a company which I know indirectly via their previous existence as a part of Spencer Smith Miniatures.
On the recommendation set out in your post I am about to place an order for some of their guns. Any advice on the accuracy and compatibility (with 1/72) of their limber and team would be helpful.
And yes, I agree that more artillery crew are required in our scale.
PS: I owe an apology to Chris for mis-spelling his surname in my previous post. I'm looking forward to more on his Antietam project.
Hi Minuteman, The Jacklex limber is probably the best for the limber itself. The front foot board is maybe a little too forward but that's just being picky. The limber chest is correct dimensions. The pole needs to be attached and it suffers the same issue as the plastic ones as its used to attach to the horses. Similar for the front traces. The horses themselves are ok, they are on the move so depends on whether you want that or not. The crew are old school so will depend on whether you like that style.
The limber set comes with a gun which is a bonus if you are looking for these also. Its not cheap mainly because you get 7 horses, riders and a gun. I don't know if you can get the limber on its own. If I had a choice I'd use different horses and riders. Maybe substitute with Newline Design limber horses.
The RSM95 limbers are okay. The foot board arrangement to me is wrong (the have 3 boards butted up to each other when it should be two, the front should be wider than the rear, and with some spacing) but the rest is fine. You can get these separately or in a pack with Caisson at a reasonable price even with postage.
Again, we're only talking about this because of the lack of good plastic versions.
Thanks Neilad, very helpful. I'll be placing an order with Jacklex later today and will order one of their limbers and teams (and several guns) to see how they look. I suspect that the figures will be OK against some of the smaller and slimmer ACW 1/72 plastics, and it sounds as if the limber is as good as any out there in plastic or metal. The horses will probably work as this will be a self-contained 'unit' as such.
Hello Mr Neilad.
Thank you for your wonderfully detailed and informative post.
Unfortunately I purchased a lot of the Speria cannons which have been painted up.
However, those Jacklex cannons are superb especially with a twin barrel option.
I am ordering them as we speak!
I have spent so much time and effort in getting my re fight to be as authentic as possible it would seem wrong not to do so for two of the most iconic pieces of this conflict.
If you want a comprehensive digest of the action I recommend Carmen Ezra’s Antietam book volume two. He was actually there and was commissioned to research the action.
Thank you once again.
@Chris, Thanks for the reference, I'll be sure to look that one up. I know what you mean about trying to be authentic. It sometimes gets the better of me. I will start sharing my project progress more broadly once I've got some more pieces completed.
@Minuteman, Thanks for the kind words, I'm sure the Jacklex crew are wondering what the spike is about. I've been contemplating purchasing more myself. Just hoping for a little more improvement in our dollar.
Would be interested to hear both your thoughts on the guns once you get them in your hands. I hope that one day in the not too distant future we will be able to get this quality in 1/72 plastic. Its a shame we have to look to the metal market for something that you would think would be readily available for this era in plastic. Maybe a more directed question to gauge the interest level.
@Strelets, What's the chances of more ACW Artillery to cover the more common guns of the period? :thinking_face:
Napoleons were made by us in set French Artillery for the Crimean war.
Crews are available from 2 ACW sets.
We see no reason to repeat the subject, really.
Thanks Strelets. I appreciate the direct response. Probably the response I expected. BTW if the set you referring to is 065, this contains the 1841 issue Napoleon. Most of these were melted down at the start of the ACW and very few saw service beyond the first few months of the war so does not represent the most common Napoleon of the ACW. Only about 60 pieces of this type saw service as compared to the later Napoleon of which approx 1700 saw service. Nor does it cover the 10pdr Parrot (over 600) or the 3inch Ordinance (over 900), the other two most common pieces.
Even if one was to accept 065 as a reasonable set it isn't readily available so finding maybe a single box or two (with only 2 guns in the box, just for the guns) is not really going to be sufficient for anyone to build artillery units from. As previously stated, its a shame you chose to produce two sets with obscure pieces in them, only one being a field gun, the Whitworth (of which only 12 saw service in the war). I'm sure it affected your sales of these sets, where someone might look to purchase 3-10 boxes to get a reasonable number of artillery, 1 or 2 boxes would have been purchased. Even adding the other barrel types to the confederate set would have seen this set being far more useful.
While we are on ACW. It has been asked previously whether there would be other ACW sets and the response has been that you would expand the line but there was no timeline. Can I ask then would part of that expansion be a zouave set specific to the ACW, that has decent poses in the current sculpting style, ACW backpacks rather than the french style, ACW bayonets rather then knife style, chasseur style pants rather than baggy pantaloons?
Or can we expect a similar response in that you've already released a Crimean War Zouave set?
(Neilad).... "Can I ask then would part of that expansion be a zouave set specific to the ACW, that has decent poses in the current sculpting style, ACW backpacks rather than the french style, ACW bayonets rather then knife style, chasseur style pants rather than baggy pantaloons?
Or can we expect a similar response in that you've already released a Crimean War Zouave set?
A good set of Zouaves would be almost more useful than an artillery set...especially since other artillery options (including 20mm metal) are available. In the UK 3 x Jacklex guns (3 carriages, 6 barrels) costs £7.50 + a bit of postage....
The Crimean French Field Artillery set is, incidentally, still available here and there in the UK (eg: Wonderland Models in Scotland). It is a good set, so perhaps Strelets might consider re-releasing it sometimes?
Just for the record I have received my Jacklex cannon together with a gratis crew for which I am very grateful.
The cannon are detailed and look lovely.
However, in my opinion, the trail looks painfully thin and the Parrott barrel looks more 20pdr than 10.
It is the ‘look’ of the thing I seek as well as accuracy so compromises are in order here.
Nevertheless, the wheels are super and I am thinking of using them as 12 Pdr howitzers as the Confederates had fifty six of these at Antietam.
My SHQ pieces have twelve spokes so the Jacklex ones will be most useful to replace those.
All in all, not the complete answer but a very good compromise.
Thank you once again .
looks like most people have beaten me to the subject of ACW artillery which has been much on my mind lately.
It's a mystery why Italeri didn't produce a Confederate artillery set, and the Imex set leaves much to be desired, so the Rebels are poorly served for artillery.
Well, here's my little wish, or maybe lightbulb moment for Strelets to consider.
How about producing ACW Big Box artillery sets? These could include limbers and command figures with an assortment of guns! As a collector/modeller I like to see a means of moving guns around!
I'm more of a collector/modeller than wargamer but as I assemble my ACW armies I'm frustrated by the lack of artillery!
If Strelets should go ahead I'll buy 2 or maybe 4 each, Union and Confederate - looks like there are plenty more people wanting artillery............
I just hope they don't take too long as I'm getting older - 67 next month! (Ouch!) and I wonder if I'll see half the things I'd like to!
Well, stay safe and have fun, and maybe dream fantasize about Big Box sets............
Best regards to all
Not field artillery but very nice too, and easily overlooked. Just in case you are not aware of the existence of this set. I think every collector should own one.