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May 8 and 9 were the end of the Second World War, the end of a butchery of 50 million people who died and the victory over Nazism.
Les 8 et 9 mai c'est surtout la fin de la seconde guerre mondiale, la fin d'une boucherie de 50 millions de personnes mortes et la victoire sur le nazisme.
8 и 9 мая были окончанием Второй мировой войны, окончанием резни 50 миллионов погибших и победой над нацизмом.
8 і 9 травня були в кінці другої світової війни, в кінці масляниста 50 000 000 людей, які загинули і перемога над нацизмом.
And people like your grandfather willingly supported the kackbrown devil?
Well, some opt for Satan, others for Beelzebub. Some opt for Satan in order to destroy Beelzebub, and vice versa.
Daft, isn't it?
On 8th May one celebrates victory over the racist Nazi mass murderers. They were fought by many people of French, British, American, Russian, or other origin - in unison, and for good and honest reasons. To celebrate this victory does not mean that other injustices and crimes must be forgotten. Similarly, the fact that others have committed crimes as well - Stalinists, capitalists, whoever - may never serve as a pretext to forget what inhuman regime was finally destroyed on 8th May.
How about finally learning from history? Neither ignore nor forget what happened but becoming fully aware of what went wrong, and why, and just acknowledge that new avenues have to be explored. Together.
BTW, this is a forum on plastic figures.
My grandfather fought against nazis and against communist . And you Are leftist MORON putinite
Hopefully, the fate of this world will not be in the hands of people like you.
You Are calling my grandfather a nazi Even that he fought in Finnish army infantry regiment 200 against soviets Finnish Infantry Regiment 200. My grandfather would have kicked your papas ass If they had met in battlefield.
To put things in right prospective, your grandfather was assisting perpetrators of this (highly disturbing images, 21+ y.o. only- you've been warned!):
whereas the Allies stopped that from happening!
Don't trouble troubles, mate!
It was important to remember VE day (VJ day should also be remembered!) as one cannot imagine what could have happened if the third reich had been successful.
Unfortunately, history is being rewritten - every child in the Russian Federation should remember and be proud of the 'patriotic war' (1941-45). But what about the close association between German and Russia in the thirties until the dictators fell out in 1941 - has this been written out like Trotsky and the Russian Revolution?
President Macron began the anniversary ceremony with a wreath-laying at the statue of Gen Charles de Gaulle - I thought it was the American lead coalition ( the so called Anglo-saxons) that liberated France.
Celebrating May 8 or 9, which is the date of victory over Nazi Germany and its allies, is not approving the USSR and its actions. Then there is the Cold War. Today we are all at peace in a free world. That's the end of it. The regrets and reproaches of a particular situation or action of the past belong to history. And celebrating the end of wars is a good thing, even if you are passionate about wargames and/or figurines.
As I can understand, you are dealing with a very difficult subject such as WW2 and its consequences. There so much we can say about this.
Only one is for sure:
Let us hope that these regimes will not appear again in Europe and they will wiped out from all the world.
I am referring to nazism, fascism, communism,even religion fanaticism and their ideologies: nationalism-chauvinism, racism, hatred against "the others".
Let us hope but there is a long way to go....
But just Imagine (John Lennon)
Imagine by Lennon is one of my favourite songs ever, Marios!
:+1: :+1: :+1:
Yes Hitler and Stalin were nasty pieces of work but let's remember all the millions who have died at the hands of US CIA sponsored right-wing dictators in south/central America and the rest of the world in the name of capitalist imperialism since WW2. Pinochet, Kissinger, Nixon and all those criminal scum. It's a bad, bad world...
Surely agree with you SteveO !!!
Ou là là là là . cela en devient très difficile cette discution. Nous passons de la victoire en Europe au Stalinisme et à l'ère du comunisme. Puis nous revenons à la guerre froide aux guerres menées par les USA en Amérique du Sud. Bientôt nous allons bientôt passer au vietnam et à la guerre en Afganistan. Et si l'on invoquait les bombes d'Hiroshima et Nagasaki? Je parlait juste de la victoire sur un cancer de l'humanité. Si certains sont contre ou pour cela n'a aucune importance aujourd'hui. Il y a eu une victoire, point final, et j'en suis content car les prisonniers des camps ont été délivrés, les massacres de civils en Italy, en France, en Grande-Bretagne, et partout ailleurs ont cessé. C'était parfait? NON. Mais c'était un pas dans la bonne direction. Et si aujourd'hui tant de personnes émigrent vers nos pays libres, c'est en raison du 8 mai 1945, et de la liberté que nous offrons. C'est parfait? NON, nos démocratie sont parfaites? NON, mais c'est déjà pas si mal que cela. Je remercie chaque 8 mai les combattants français qui se sont fait écrasés en 1940 face à une machine de guerre imbattable en 1940, les combattants britanniques qui montrés une force morale extraordinaire, les combattants américains qui sont venus sur mourir sur les plages de Normandie, les combattants de l'ombre de tous les pays qui ont été d'un courage exemplaire, et les combattants russes qui sans leurs sacrifice rien n'aurait été possible. Ce n'est le cas ailleurs, mais en Europe AUJOURD'HUI, il n'y a plus de camps de la mort. Merci à tous, je me recentrer sur les figurines Strelets, qui sont le sujet de ce forum. Une dernière chose, dans le même ordre d'idée, je célèbre aussi le 11 novembre, pour la fin de l'autre cataclisme subit par les Français, les britaniques, les Italiens, les Belges, les Russes, les Allemands, les autrichiens . . . . . . et une grande partie de l'humanité. Merci à tous, je me recentrer sur les figurines Strelets, qui sont le sujet de ce forum. Voyons voir, qu'y a t'il de nouveau chez Strelets.
Or there there. it becomes very difficult this discussion. We are going from victory in Europe to Stalinism and the era of Comunism. Then we go back to the Cold War to the US-led wars in South America. Soon we will soon move to Vietnam and the war in Afganistan. What if we invoked the bombs of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? I was just talking about the victory over a cancer of humanity. Whether some are against or for it does not matter today. There was a victory, period, and I am happy because the prisoners of the camps were freed, the massacres of civilians in Italy, France, Great Britain, and everywhere else have stopped. Was it perfect? Not. But it was a step in the right direction. And if today so many people emigrate to our free countries, it is because of May 8, 1945, and the freedom we offer. It's perfect? NO, our democracies are perfect? NO, but it's not that bad. I thank every 8 May the French fighters who were crushed in 1940 in the face of an unbeatable war machine in 1940, the British fighters who showed extraordinary moral strength, the American fighters who came on death on the beaches of Normandy, the shadow fighters of all the countries who were of exemplary courage, and the Russian fighters who without their sacrifice nothing would have been possible. This is not the case elsewhere, but in Europe TODAY, there are no more death camps. Thank you all, I refocus on the Strelets figurines, which are the subject of this forum. One last thing, in the same vein, I also celebrate on November 11, for the end of the other cataclism suffered by the French, the British, the Italians, the Belgians, the Russians, the Germans, the Austrians . . . . . . . and much of humanity. Thank you all, I refocus on the Strelets figurines, which are the subject of this forum. Let's see, what's new at Strelets.
Anyone want to talk about toy soldiers ? how about a nice set of desert raiders, LRDG/SAS for starters....
I think we're just using this ONE thread to let off a bit of steam in these difficult times and Strelets are indulging us, bless them. Plenty of other threads with talk of figures, eras, SAS/LRDG etc...
It is worth noting that 9 May was a deliberate choice by the Soviet regime because it did not, on principle, want the same day as the West, as it did not accept the validity of the armistice, insisting on having its own one the next day.
I'm not trying to argue the rights and wrongs of this, particularly given decisive events on the eastern Front, but just pointing out that VE shows us that, from day one, there was going to be a problem!
Few regimes had clean hands, but Stalin's Russia was probably second only to Hitler in dirtiness. I remember the reaction of a friend and contemporary of mine who was Ukrainian and who, in adult life, had been allowed to learn for the first time about Stalin's genocide. She was in bits, poor thing. Everything she'd been taught at school had been a cynical lie.
In the West, in 1941, we were forced to re-invent a murderous despot as "Uncle Joe", because we found ourselves on the same side in the fight against an even greater evil.
The Russian people made an enormous sacrifices in WW2, so enormous that it is hard to comprehend, and they deserved their victory. If they had had a better leader, that sacrifice might not have needed to be so great, but it would have been great nonetheless. That commands immense respect. A people seldom deserves its leaders.
The Russian Federation is not the only place to have 9th May as 75th anniversary. The Channel Islands also celebrate their liberation as they were left until the 9th may for British forces to arrive and remove the German garrisons.
The armistice for Europe was signed on, 8 May 1945 at 11:16 p.m. Berlin time. However, it was at this time 01:16, on May 9, 1945. There is a will of Stalin, but there is also a will not to repeat history. The Germans could no longer say that political civilians betrayed the army, as had been done with the armistice of 11 November 1918. That is why Stalin did not recognize the armistice signed at Reims on 7 May 1945.
Moreover, we've got friends, that remember the moment of the end of the war as it was announced/celebrated in USSR at night on 9th of May. It was accompanied by improvised fireworks from all handguns, signal rockets, etc.
That's an interesting phenomenon, when with each subsequent year after the war and fewer actual witnesses the number of "suffering" because of Soviet occupation is ever increasing.
This, however, doesn't address the fact, how it happened, that at the end of the war apart from 2.388.443 German and 156.681 Austrian German POWs in Soviet captivity there were also:
69.977 Czechs & Slovaks
that were taken prisoners with arms in their hands.
These were NOT people forcefully mobilized for works - they were treated not as POWs.
Question remains, who actually killed 26,6 mil. of Soviet citizens, out of which only 9.168.400 were actual servicemen while the rest were civilians and not only Jews or Gypsies? At the moment a silent consensus is that the blame is entirely on the Germans, whereas in reality many, very many others were taking part in atrocities. People must have forgotten old saying, that for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.
To put things in proper prospective, there were also POWs in Soviet captivity from Europe outside Soviet zone of occupation, namely: