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Re: Nice week-end, gentlemen!

Nice figs, despite the large heads. The standard-bearer looks particularly impressive.

I agree with Sansovino that Austrians (at least a couple) should follow the Brits/French eventually.

Cheers,

N.

Re: Nice week-end, gentlemen!

Nicolasc
Nice figs, despite the large heads. The standard-bearer looks particularly impressive.

I agree with Sansovino that Austrians (at least a couple) should follow the Brits/French eventually.

Cheers,

N.
And Spaniards! It was their war.

Re: Nice week-end, gentlemen!

"Nice figs, despite the large heads."

That's exactly why I will not buy these figures.

The Gardes du Corps and Mousquetaires du Roi were elite troops but here they look like caricatures for the very reason that their heads are disproportionately big in comparison to their bodies and hats.

As for the folding of the hats, yes, it may have been slightly different from the British method but not universally. For example, the Compagnie d'Harcourt as shown by Delaistre (1721) wore hats similar to the British, not to speak of Guérard's 1695 representations. And here's another painting by Robert showing Mousquetaires du Roi in 1729 (so only slightly later than Delaistre). Again, lower hats:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mousquetaires_de_la_garde#/media/Datei:Revue_des_mousquetaires.jpg

So which style was predominant during the WSS? Guérard's/Robert's lower hats or the higher style as shown in most - but not all - of Delaistre's illustrations? Anyway, due to the oversized heads the hats look just ridiculously small. The faintest gust would blow them away.

Also, the hairstyles don't look right, in my opinion. No back views of the figures have been shown so far but from what I can see they do not really render what was shown by Guérard or Delaistre.

Further, to my taste, both the fusils of the Mousquetaires and the carbines of the Gardes du Corps look a little short again. By the WSS, Mousquetaires du Roi were armed with fusils whose barrel length was c. 115 cm, as opposed to carbine/mousqueton barrels which were c. 95/96 cm long. Total lengths of the fusils used by the Mousquetaires du Roi and the carbines/mousquetons used by the Gardes du Corps can be calculated from surviving originals:

http://fr.1001mags.com/parution/gazette-des-armes/numero-42-octobre-1976/page-14-15-texte-integral

The swords look too short as well. The blade alone should be well over 90 cm, see e.g. here:

https://www.thierrydemaigret.com/en/lot/93553/9234557
https://www.gazette-drouot.com/en/lots/9099935
https://www.galeriedemars.fr/fr/armes-blanches/5135-3119-forte-epee-cavalerie-1695-france-ancienne-monarchie.html

And period trumpets were definitely longer. They looked like this (total length over 70 cm):

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b84316876.r=le%20trompette%20a%20cheval?rk=21459;2
http://trompetteversailles.blogspot.com/2015/09/les-plaisirs-de-versailles-sous-le.html
https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/503968


Enough reasons for me not to be happy with these figures.

Re: Nice week-end, gentlemen!

Master Kunz
"Nice figs, despite the large heads."

That's exactly why I will not buy these figures.

The Gardes du Corps and Mousquetaires du Roi were elite troops but here they look like caricatures for the very reason that their heads are disproportionately big in comparison to their bodies and hats.

As for the folding of the hats, yes, it may have been slightly different from the British method but not universally. For example, the Compagnie d'Harcourt as shown by Delaistre (1721) wore hats similar to the British, not to speak of Guérard's 1695 representations. And here's another painting by Robert showing Mousquetaires du Roi in 1729 (so only slightly later than Delaistre). Again, lower hats:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mousquetaires_de_la_garde#/media/Datei:Revue_des_mousquetaires.jpg

So which style was predominant during the WSS? Guérard's/Robert's lower hats or the higher style as shown in most - but not all - of Delaistre's illustrations? Anyway, due to the oversized heads the hats look just ridiculously small. The faintest gust would blow them away.

Also, the hairstyles don't look right, in my opinion. No back views of the figures have been shown so far but from what I can see they do not really render what was shown by Guérard or Delaistre.

Further, to my taste, both the fusils of the Mousquetaires and the carbines of the Gardes du Corps look a little short again. By the WSS, Mousquetaires du Roi were armed with fusils whose barrel length was c. 115 cm, as opposed to carbine/mousqueton barrels which were c. 95/96 cm long. Total lengths of the fusils used by the Mousquetaires du Roi and the carbines/mousquetons used by the Gardes du Corps can be calculated from surviving originals:

http://fr.1001mags.com/parution/gazette-des-armes/numero-42-octobre-1976/page-14-15-texte-integral

The swords look too short as well. The blade alone should be well over 90 cm, see e.g. here:

https://www.thierrydemaigret.com/en/lot/93553/9234557
https://www.gazette-drouot.com/en/lots/9099935
https://www.galeriedemars.fr/fr/armes-blanches/5135-3119-forte-epee-cavalerie-1695-france-ancienne-monarchie.html

And period trumpets were definitely longer. They looked like this (total length over 70 cm):

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b84316876.r=le%20trompette%20a%20cheval?rk=21459;2
http://trompetteversailles.blogspot.com/2015/09/les-plaisirs-de-versailles-sous-le.html
https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/503968


Enough reasons for me not to be happy with these figures.
Regulations and supplies have been and still are today, a major difficulty in the uniformity of troops. When a regulation appears in the 17th century, it is interpreted differently according to the commanders. The application of these regulations also varies according to the available materials and effects where the units are located. Thus, when the soldiers of his graceful majesty are dressed in red, this red ranges from brick red almost brown to pale red almost pink. The same goes for the shape of the garment or the quality of the fabric or the shape of the tricorn hat. Regulations are more followed in metropolitan areas or in the capital.

Today the effects and uniform are manufactured by a single company and benefit from a unified supply. So it's easier. But still, look back at photos from the period, World War II, you will find soldiers with different hats, with or without calf bands, with different types of helmets, ................ one thing that is more unified is armament. But this is not an absolute truth. On the Russian front we can see in the photographs of the Germans with felt boots, Chapska on the head and and PPSh41 and 43, as well as Soviet soldiers armed with Panzerfaust. Between decision-makers' decisions and resourcefulness in the application of decisions, we can have not a gap, but a ravine

Re: Nice week-end, gentlemen!

Thanks for your input but this cannot in any way excuse strange anatomy and wrong proportions. I'm not talking about hues, or the like. I'm referring to contemporary material and physical realities, I don't speculate. So, after all, nothing of your theorizing invalidates my arguments. :thinking_face:

Of course, everybody's free to buy whatever they want just as I am free not to buy what I don't want. Just like to let Strelets know why I don't buy some of their products. I think that's fair enough. Maybe, if they tried harder they would sell more. :slightly_smiling_face:

Re: Nice week-end, gentlemen!


Excuse me, Master Kunz, but I'm not trying to invalidate anything you say. Likewise I'm not looking for controversies. I try to make a clarification on the figurines I see. I don't spéculate.

Personally I will buy these boxes and I agree with you on the fact that everyone is free to acquire or not these products.

Good weekend to you

Re: Nice week-end, gentlemen!

So we agree, after all. No offence, and a good weekend to you as well. :relaxed:

Re: Nice week-end, gentlemen!

I agree that the proportions of these figures look strange, and that the heads are too big. The test is really to see what these riders look like when they are mounted, and then formed into units. I am hopeful that the horses will be well proportioned and of a suitable size, and that once these plastic gentlemen are astride their mounts they will look suitably realistic ie: the large heads will be less obvious. And yes, the swords are too small...

Bear in mind here also that much more expensive metal figures (15mm especially, but also 25-28mm sometimes) often suffer from the same problems....

Apart from this, I cannot fault the sculpting, with fine detail being well represented. The standard bearer looks particularly good, and on this occasion (unlike the recently viewed Prussian Napoleonic sets) a standard bearer is correct for the unit.

These are troops that have not previously been produced in 1/72 plastic, and are to be applauded. If Strelets are true to their principle of producing sets that have not previously been made, then I suggest that the following are still required to round off the WoSS range:

- French line cavalry (less decorative, much more numerous than Maison du Roi in French armies of the period)
-French line dragoons (same comment as above)
- If not Austrian cuirassiers, then Bavarian cuirassiers. In this scale they are pretty much the same thing.

It seems a shame to me to be having to trim off fine detailing of 'guard' cavalrymen to make less ornate line cavalry...but if needs must, then that's what I'll be doing.

Look forward to these being in production and out ready to buy in the next month or two...maybe??

Re: Nice week-end, gentlemen!

I agree with what Minuteman said. And then the more details we want in the engraving the more space it takes to put them.

Have a great weekend to you all.

Re: Nice week-end, gentlemen!

Not for the first time I find myself in agreement with Minuteman.

I have hopes that these will scrub up to be fine units on the cloth.

I thoroughly endorse the suggestions made:

- French "light" cavalry. In fact the unarmoured heavy cavalry of the period and the equivalent of the English Horse we seem to have been shown. Far more numerous, typical and useful. I'll love the maison du roi and eagerly acquire some, but I'll buy far more sets of the 'line' cavalry.

-French line dragoons. As Minuteman says, much the same comment as above. As the French dragoons seem still to have fought as dragoons, dismounted poses and standing horses with horse-holders would be useful.

- Cuirassiers. Useful for both Imperial and Bavarian formations.

Re: Friday afternoon rolls on

Alas I was hoping for some WW1 Ottomans.

Re: Friday afternoon rolls on

...me too. Or some ANZAC infantry...

Re: Friday afternoon rolls on

Me too, ww1 would be great

Re: Friday afternoon rolls on

Cappy
Alas I was hoping for some WW1 Ottomans.
I'm waiting with baited-breath and my chequebook at the ready

Re: Friday afternoon rolls on

Personally, I will buy these figurines. And for several reasons. I've heard that engraving riders and horses is very difficult. The subject is original and unique. The period for these figurines has never been processed (to my knowledge). Admittedly, swords too short, hats and big heads, but once painted and placed on a diorama . . . . . . . It is more an overview, which will erase these annoying details. Thanks Strelets, a question: When will they be produced???

Re: Friday afternoon rolls on

I WILL BE BUYING ALL WSS sets, as having been a wargamer for at least 6 decades i am delighted that Strelets are producing this era no matter what comments a certain poster has made about certain errors , i totally respect his point of view and his detailed knowledge but am moved to say that if he feels that strongly about the figures, he could produce correct master sculpts for Strelets

from a wargamers point of view, being at least 3 feet / 1 metre above games table the finer points of detail disappear , as long as the figures are painted nicely and as for this period it is extremely colourful and much easier to paint then Napoleonic's

when i first started WSS the only figures available were metal ones from Les Higgins, Alberken, Minifigs S range, Douglas Miniatures, some of which were very generic and basic but painted up for various nations looked fine

i always look at figures to see what unit/nation they could be used for as a decent paint job can make all the difference, for me the game is the most important
cheers, stay safe in these troubled times
Old John

Re: Friday afternoon rolls on

Quite right, the paint and sometimes the scraping, erases the wrong details. That is, the bad details are always present, but the eye no longer sees them . . . Accuracy is a decoy, and truth is a point of view.

Re: Friday afternoon rolls on

old John
I WILL BE BUYING ALL WSS sets, as having been a wargamer for at least 6 decades i am delighted that Strelets are producing this era no matter what comments a certain poster has made about certain errors , i totally respect his point of view and his detailed knowledge but am moved to say that if he feels that strongly about the figures, he could produce correct master sculpts for Strelets

from a wargamers point of view, being at least 3 feet / 1 metre above games table the finer points of detail disappear , as long as the figures are painted nicely and as for this period it is extremely colourful and much easier to paint then Napoleonic's

when i first started WSS the only figures available were metal ones from Les Higgins, Alberken, Minifigs S range, Douglas Miniatures, some of which were very generic and basic but painted up for various nations looked fine

i always look at figures to see what unit/nation they could be used for as a decent paint job can make all the difference, for me the game is the most important
cheers, stay safe in these troubled times
Old John
Well said old John. For those of us who like admiring large units massed on the table top rather than individual figures, it is all about what they look like en masse. These new WoSS cavalry will, I am sure, look terrific once they are painted and in their respective units.

And yes, things have moved on a long, long way since the 1970s....

PS: Not sure that these are 'much easier' to paint than Napoleonics...just a little bit easier perhaps, but those French Mason du Roi cavalry uniforms...

Re: Friday afternoon rolls on

"... if he feels that strongly about the figures, he could produce correct master sculpts for Strelets..."

Excuse me? That's not my job. I'm not a sculptor. But I'm also not trying to make money by producing crap. I'm a customer who counts on the knowledge and craftsmanship of sculptors, among them Strelets's sculptors, who pretend to produce accurate figures. It's my money they want. They have to do their job perfectly. If they are not able to do that - **** off! "Don't bite the hand that feeds you"? Well, apparently, some people don't know who exactly is feeding whom and, consequently, who should not bite whose hand. Men know, dogs don't.

Have a nice day.

Re: Friday afternoon rolls on

" i totally respect his point of view and his detailed knowledge "

think you missed the point with your excellent apparent knowledge of the period uniforms etc you could have advised Strelets politely about corrections or improvements of the figures

you seem to infer that i am a dog which i take as a compliment as dogs are more intelligent and well mannered than most humans

and i will be buying all WSS sets, well done to Strelets, as will many of my fellow gamers and friends around the world !!!!!

cheers Old John

Re: Friday afternoon rolls on

Well said, Old John. I'll also be buying everything Strelets produces for the WSS. The three-foot rule negates all nitpickers. :wink:

Re: Friday afternoon rolls on

After 60 years of collecting figures I still enjoy having battles. I just set them up and knock em down.
Dont care about number of buttons or if a rifle is shouldered on the right side or left.
If others do thats fine.
I just have fun and Strelets makes it happen. Cappy

Re: Friday afternoon rolls on

Cappy
After 60 years of collecting figures I still enjoy having battles. I just set them up and knock em down.
Dont care about number of buttons or if a rifle is shouldered on the right side or left.
If others do thats fine.
I just have fun and Strelets makes it happen. Cappy
so im not the only one who plays with all my figures!

Re: Friday afternoon rolls on

Nice to have some warmth and humour back. master Kunz was rather aggressive there, which did not sit well with me as we are using our host’s goodWill to discuss their products.

I agree, sometimes sets aren’t perfect. And it is good when manufacturers strive to achieve perfection. But I always trust their research and am sure they have reasons for doing what they do.

Ultimately, the market will decide. And for me, as a Naps fan first, then WW2, then 18th century, I for one am very pleased with the new style sculpting and mould quality that Strelets are achieving.

Re: Friday afternoon rolls on

tom s
Cappy
After 60 years of collecting figures I still enjoy having battles. I just set them up and knock em down.
Dont care about number of buttons or if a rifle is shouldered on the right side or left.
If others do thats fine.
I just have fun and Strelets makes it happen. Cappy
so im not the only one who plays with all my figures!
Yes, me three!

I like to relive famous and also imagination battles with my figures. Everything still gets set up and put away within a couple of hours when I get that feeling I had over 50 years ago, especially after Christmas or after a good movie.

Thank you Strelets Team members, and thank you fellow forum members for sharing your keen interests in this hobby alive and fun!

GC

GC
tom s
Cappy
After 60 years of collecting figures I still enjoy having battles. I just set them up and knock em down.
Dont care about number of buttons or if a rifle is shouldered on the right side or left.
If others do thats fine.
I just have fun and Strelets makes it happen. Cappy
so im not the only one who plays with all my figures!
Yes, me three!

I like to relive famous and also imagination battles with my figures. Everything still gets set up and put away within a couple of hours when I get that feeling I had over 50 years ago, especially after Christmas or after a good movie.

Thank you Strelets Team members, and thank you fellow forum members for sharing your keen interests in this hobby alive and fun!
You've been quiet lately, GC. All well I hope?

donald

Re: GC

Thank you for your thoughts! Using some of this unusual extra time to reorganize my collection. I don't mind admitting I am more than ready for normal to return.

I'll bet you have gotten some extra figurine painting done and maybe even some online war games fought.

I sincerely hope you, your loved ones, and everyone else are safe and healthy!

Again, thank you.

Re: GC

GC
Thank you for your thoughts! Using some of this unusual extra time to reorganize my collection. I don't mind admitting I am more than ready for normal to return.

I'll bet you have gotten some extra figurine painting done and maybe even some online war games fought.

I sincerely hope you, your loved ones, and everyone else are safe and healthy!

Again, thank you.
Good to hear you're using your time wisely.

As you say, I'm busy too. Sadly/happily, I'm back at work on Monday.

Keep safe, donald