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Some parameters

The responses, above, make interesting reading.

I'd just add that the man:figure ratio often depends on the scale of the game you're playing (ie from large battle to skirmish), the look of the thing (eg my SYW battalions are a tad bigger than my Nap. ones because that's the look I wanted) and the ratio of ranker to command figures in the box.

The last parameter is an important one. I'd really like to field lots of 10 figure Russian Napoleonic infantry battalions to mirror the understrength nature of the Russians in 1812 & beyond. However, I don't because, for example, a Strelets' box has 4 Command figures (for a single stand) and 40+ ranker figures.

donald

Re: Some parameters

Indeed, some fascinating answers.

As a non-playing wargamer* (!) I can indulge myself by making the look of the thing the chief criterion, but numbers have to be adjusted to allow basing by the basic tactical building block, a company or division of companies.

The point is well made about the inability to represent frontage versus depth to any kind of scale; I base all companies 2-deep, so they are 2-deep when deployed in line, which is far too deep for 2 or 3-men deep line in reality, whatever the notional figure ratio or ground scale. But, it's the look of the thing; 20-40 figures in a single line just looks silly!

*I like the figures, the painting and the research. Wargames units are a convenient way to represent historical units, but I have never actually played a wargame.

Re: Some parameters

Edwardian
Indeed, some fascinating answers.

As a non-playing wargamer* (!) I can indulge myself by making the look of the thing the chief criterion, but numbers have to be adjusted to allow basing by the basic tactical building block, a company or division of companies.

The point is well made about the inability to represent frontage versus depth to any kind of scale; I base all companies 2-deep, so they are 2-deep when deployed in line, which is far too deep for 2 or 3-men deep line in reality, whatever the notional figure ratio or ground scale. But, it's the look of the thing; 20-40 figures in a single line just looks silly!

*I like the figures, the painting and the research. Wargames units are a convenient way to represent historical units, but I have never actually played a wargame.
Edwardian: I think your post is spot-on. Appearance is very important, otherwise we'd be board gaming.

A "non-playing wargamer"????

My place, next Sunday. SYW? Napoleonic? How about AZW or the Bronze Age? I'll provide the figures.

donald

(Sadly, I think the commute time might make this offer impractical).

Re: Some parameters

Paint dog
The responses, above, make interesting reading.

I'd just add that the man:figure ratio often depends on the scale of the game you're playing (ie from large battle to skirmish), the look of the thing (eg my SYW battalions are a tad bigger than my Nap. ones because that's the look I wanted) and the ratio of ranker to command figures in the box.

The last parameter is an important one. I'd really like to field lots of 10 figure Russian Napoleonic infantry battalions to mirror the understrength nature of the Russians in 1812 & beyond. However, I don't because, for example, a Strelets' box has 4 Command figures (for a single stand) and 40+ ranker figures.

donald
I suppose one way around this is to brigade, say, four weak battalions each of ten figures and use the command figures as the 'brigade command', giving a weak tabletop 'brigade' of 44 figures. If your patience and conversion capabilities permit, it might also be possible to convert one of the figures in each battalion into, say, an NCO or even a drummer. Perform a head-turn conversion so that the NCO is looking sideways, as if ordering his unit; Drums are reasonably easy to scratch-build if you don't mind painting the details on. A suitable paint-job will distinguish these from their similarly-posed fellows. Or if you like lots of flags, why not 'share' a converted standard bearer between each pair of battalions? With the standing/marching poses that are the norm with recent Strelets Napoleonic releases, this is reasonably easy to do.

Two boxes and you'd have an eight battalion 'Division', with around 90 figures. Add a mounted Divisional General and it would look OK I think....and a Division at a bargain price as well:relaxed:

Re: Some parameters

Sir, thank you for taking the time to formulate such a detailed & clever solution but I must respond with "no".

I'm sorry if I appear ungrateful but see my comments on, "the look of the thing".
Every battalion, no matter what size, must have a 4 figure command stand: commonly, officer, musician, ensign & NCO. These figures, at the head of a column, the middle of a line or the front face of a square, *must* look good & not like some jury-rigged conversions.

This is, of course, a long standing problem. My best solution was found in the HaT MAC sets, where I could purchase enough command figures to fit my exacting needs.

Again, apologies for spurning your excellent suggestions.

donald

Re: Some parameters

Paint dog
Sir, thank you for taking the time to formulate such a detailed & clever solution but I must respond with "no".

I'm sorry if I appear ungrateful but see my comments on, "the look of the thing".
Every battalion, no matter what size, must have a 4 figure command stand: commonly, officer, musician, ensign & NCO. These figures, at the head of a column, the middle of a line or the front face of a square, *must* look good & not like some jury-rigged conversions.

This is, of course, a long standing problem. My best solution was found in the HaT MAC sets, where I could purchase enough command figures to fit my exacting needs.

Again, apologies for spurning your excellent suggestions.

donald
Always happy to provide a view where I can:upside_down_face:

My Russians are mainly by 'the other Russian company' and their five-figure command set provides the extra figures I need; same style and scale.

Having said that, I'd not want to put four command figures at the head of only six other ranks (definitely wouldn't look at all 'right')..so I quite understand your dilemma.

Would be great if Strelets started producing command sets - perhaps as mini-boxes of four sprues and, say, 20 figures per box.

Re: How many men do you have in your battalions?


As far as I'm concerned, I'm not a gamer and I like the mass effect, I use 1: 1 for my infantry scale. So I have French battalions of 700 to 840 men with a single flag, 10 drums and 2 bugles ... but I think I am the only one here to do so. :slightly_smiling_face:

For the cavalry I use a 1: 4 ratio.

I hope the machine translation will be correct this time ...

Re: How many men do you have in your battalions?

Wagram

As far as I'm concerned, I'm not a gamer and I like the mass effect, I use 1: 1 for my infantry scale. So I have French battalions of 700 to 840 men with a single flag, 10 drums and 2 bugles ... but I think I am the only one here to do so. :slightly_smiling_face:

For the cavalry I use a 1: 4 ratio.

I hope the machine translation will be correct this time ...
That must look impressive!

How many of these huge 1:1 French battalions do you have? And how large a table do you need to deploy them?

Re: How many men do you have in your battalions?

I don't wargame, not any more, I gave up after facing a particularly childish outburst from one opponent in response to my militia brigade routing his guards.

My collection is based on the real armies themselves. Of course sources differ/argue but my French average 20, though vary from 10 to 26.
By comparison the Prussians and allies average 26 ranging from 14 to 43.

Cavalry average 16 across the board. Artillery has one gun and crew per troop/company plus a team of horses and drivers with either a limber or caisson in support. Wargamers will be jumping up and down saying how do you play half companies with one gun? To which I reply, I don't wargame!

In all 12,000 figures, which are awaiting Netherlands Carabineers and Prussian artillery train to compete the deal. Though I don't mind waiting a little longer for these if it means Alan gets his LRDG, and we get a little peace ;0)

Re: How many men do you have in your battalions?

16 men here for an average SYW battalion of say 500-600 men, larger formations a total of 18/20 and weaker ones about 12, all carrying 2 colours. The number being more of a compromise btw time invested and a nice variety/number of units.

My WSS/GNW: 16 men

Cavalry 8, arty 4.

Cheers,

N.

Re: How many men do you have in your battalions?

Hi

Short answer is 24.

The rules I use are more concerned with the number of 'bases' rather than figures. Black Powder, General D Armee and Honours of War current favorite sets

Essentially for a standard battalion four bases works, and for WSS and Napoleonics 6 figs in two rows per base looks right to us (40mm aware bases)

For Napoleonics then would throw in additional bases of Skirmishers but more at a Brigade level. 2 or 3 figures to a base.

For units that were larger or small add base or two


We like big games so that works, if doing a smaller campaign such as War of 1812 may be tempted to use larger battalion (say36) for the aesthetics.


Cheers




Re: How many men do you have in your battalions?

I use Carnage and Glory computer moderated rules. My battalions
are 4-6 figures, my cavalry regiments are 4-6 figures, my artillery
is 1 gun per battery. Carnage and Glory has a system that keeps
track of exactly how many men you have fit, are wounded, or missing
so basing is more for color than counting.