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Re: How many men do you have in your battalions?

Figure ratio of 1:20, based in companies or divisions of companies 2-deep.

In Napoleonics my French tend to have battalions of 6 coys totalling 24 or 36 figures, depending on whether it's full or under strength.

Other nations divide into 4 or 8, thus:

Early war Spanish 24 or 32 figures, depending on whether it's full or under strength.

Late war Prussians 32 or 40 figures, depending on whether it's full or under strength.

WSS British so far I've done as 36-figure battalions based on firing divisions rather than companies.

It's a personal thing, but, for me, 1:20 best gives the illusion or impression of a sizeable body of men, even though there are still ridiculously few.

Re: How many men do you have in your battalions?

For Napoleonic games I use 24 figures per unit with 4 figures per base and six bases per unit.

This works well for different types of formations. I like the six bases per unit regardless of unit size or rules. This number of figures works well because often figures are sold in boxes of 48. So two units per box.

From my point of view the new infantry sets value would be greatly enhanced if there was a second command sprue in each box. That way I could make two units per box. Alternatively a command box featuring a pile of command sprues would be appealing to me.

I have been thinking about going to 6 or 8 figures per base for two reasons. Its looks great and the new boxes do suit that number. However, it is a lot of figures to paint. Perhaps a lot of figures to paint is the best reason yet.

Cavalry is 12 figures per unit. One box per unit. 4 bases with 3 figures per base. Currently on the painting table are 4 Strelet's French Cuirassier units and 3 Strelet's French Hussars.

Artillery is one gun per base, and split up the crew evenly per gun. I prefer larger crews myself, 6 - 8 men. I love Artillery figures and commanders or specialty poses. I rarely buy limbers or other more complex models in soft plastic because they are too hard to assemble. Even though I like them. It is frustrating to assemble them.

Love Strelet's figures and I have lots of them.

Re: How many men do you have in your battalions?

I tend to use a 1:30 figure to actual scale for C18th and Napoleonics, and I try to use this scale to depict a unit according to its approximate strength (where known) in a particular campaign.

This means that, taking British and KGL units for the 1815 Hundred Days campaign, most British battalions started the campaign at around the 600 men mark, giving 20 figures on the table top. For a British battalion of 10 companies, this neatly fits since 10 x 20 = 20. Also, since I tend to work in terms of Brigades, four battalions of 20 looks suitably numerous, even though in actuality it is of course tiny compared with the real thing. It is pretty well impossible to get around the problem of depth v frontage, so British/KGL units are arrayed 2 figures deep, even though this is much deeper and less wide than a firing line should be. Somehow, laying the 20 figures out in a single rank 20 figures long (with a frontage of 15mm per figure, a table-top unit frontage of 30cm) just takes up too much space! And it looks so very vulnerable to flanking cavalry attack...which of course, it was...

Continuing with the British/KGL 1815 example: Several British units were large in June 1815, notably the Guards battalions and units such as 52nd Oxfordshire Light Infantry, each of which were around the 900-1000 mark. So these arrive on the table-top at around 30-36 figures each. Employing the 10 company organisation means that these companies are larger, 3 figures each. For my Guards units as 'elites' the extra figures over and above 30 figures are an extra colour party and extra command figures.

At the other end of the spectrum, KGL line and light battalions in the 1815 campaign were weaker, around 400 men, having 'lost' some of their seasoned veterans to bolster the 'greener' Hanoverian units in Wellington's army. So these arrive on the table-top around 16 figures strong. Here it becomes most important to brigade them, otherwise they are simply so small as to appear insignificant...which of course was far from reality so far as these excellent troops were concerned during 16th-18th June 1815.

French units tend to be regiments of 3 battalions, with most of these being 6 x 3 figure companies (18 figures, or 54 for the regiment; equating to a real strength of around 500-550 per battalion). However, again some units were stronger for the campaign, notably many of the Light infantry regiments and the senior regiments of the Guard; so these units have a 4 x 6 company (for Guards, 6 x 4 company) status, giving up to 72 figures per regiment (if 3 battalions).

Prussian line and reserve regiments also tend to be 3 x 24 figure battalions, with Landwehr at 3 x 20.

The same 1:30 ratio and attempt to reflect historical strengths also applies to cavalry. So for instance, the smallest British/KGL cavalry units is the Royal Horse Guards ('Blues') which fielded less than 300 men in the campaign, and appear with only 10 figures on the table-top. The Lifeguards were stronger, so brigaded as the 'Blues and Royals' this works, and they are not (quite) swamped by brigades of charging French dragoons and cuirassiers.

At the other end of the spectrum, a few of the French Guard cavalry units were notably large, in the 700-800 bracket, and so these appear as 24 figure units and perhaps should be even larger (ie: Chasseurs). Some line cavalry regiments were much weaker, and these might only field 10 - 12 figures each. Again, brigading these gives the necessary mass on the table-top. Three weak cuirassier regiments brigaded might, however, only just outnumber a single Guard regiment (Grenadiers a Cheval or Chasseurs) on this basis.

I use a different figures scale for one conflict in this period, that is the American War of Independence, where I use 1:10 figures to actual to reflect much smaller units in a conflict where few battles had more than 7-8,000 in either army, often many less. This means that a small unit of, say, 40 American rifleman is represented by 4 figures, rather than the single figure which would be necessary under the 1:30 ratio.

Some parameters

The responses, above, make interesting reading.

I'd just add that the man:figure ratio often depends on the scale of the game you're playing (ie from large battle to skirmish), the look of the thing (eg my SYW battalions are a tad bigger than my Nap. ones because that's the look I wanted) and the ratio of ranker to command figures in the box.

The last parameter is an important one. I'd really like to field lots of 10 figure Russian Napoleonic infantry battalions to mirror the understrength nature of the Russians in 1812 & beyond. However, I don't because, for example, a Strelets' box has 4 Command figures (for a single stand) and 40+ ranker figures.

donald

Re: Some parameters

Indeed, some fascinating answers.

As a non-playing wargamer* (!) I can indulge myself by making the look of the thing the chief criterion, but numbers have to be adjusted to allow basing by the basic tactical building block, a company or division of companies.

The point is well made about the inability to represent frontage versus depth to any kind of scale; I base all companies 2-deep, so they are 2-deep when deployed in line, which is far too deep for 2 or 3-men deep line in reality, whatever the notional figure ratio or ground scale. But, it's the look of the thing; 20-40 figures in a single line just looks silly!

*I like the figures, the painting and the research. Wargames units are a convenient way to represent historical units, but I have never actually played a wargame.

Re: Some parameters

Edwardian
Indeed, some fascinating answers.

As a non-playing wargamer* (!) I can indulge myself by making the look of the thing the chief criterion, but numbers have to be adjusted to allow basing by the basic tactical building block, a company or division of companies.

The point is well made about the inability to represent frontage versus depth to any kind of scale; I base all companies 2-deep, so they are 2-deep when deployed in line, which is far too deep for 2 or 3-men deep line in reality, whatever the notional figure ratio or ground scale. But, it's the look of the thing; 20-40 figures in a single line just looks silly!

*I like the figures, the painting and the research. Wargames units are a convenient way to represent historical units, but I have never actually played a wargame.
Edwardian: I think your post is spot-on. Appearance is very important, otherwise we'd be board gaming.

A "non-playing wargamer"????

My place, next Sunday. SYW? Napoleonic? How about AZW or the Bronze Age? I'll provide the figures.

donald

(Sadly, I think the commute time might make this offer impractical).

Re: Some parameters

Paint dog
The responses, above, make interesting reading.

I'd just add that the man:figure ratio often depends on the scale of the game you're playing (ie from large battle to skirmish), the look of the thing (eg my SYW battalions are a tad bigger than my Nap. ones because that's the look I wanted) and the ratio of ranker to command figures in the box.

The last parameter is an important one. I'd really like to field lots of 10 figure Russian Napoleonic infantry battalions to mirror the understrength nature of the Russians in 1812 & beyond. However, I don't because, for example, a Strelets' box has 4 Command figures (for a single stand) and 40+ ranker figures.

donald
I suppose one way around this is to brigade, say, four weak battalions each of ten figures and use the command figures as the 'brigade command', giving a weak tabletop 'brigade' of 44 figures. If your patience and conversion capabilities permit, it might also be possible to convert one of the figures in each battalion into, say, an NCO or even a drummer. Perform a head-turn conversion so that the NCO is looking sideways, as if ordering his unit; Drums are reasonably easy to scratch-build if you don't mind painting the details on. A suitable paint-job will distinguish these from their similarly-posed fellows. Or if you like lots of flags, why not 'share' a converted standard bearer between each pair of battalions? With the standing/marching poses that are the norm with recent Strelets Napoleonic releases, this is reasonably easy to do.

Two boxes and you'd have an eight battalion 'Division', with around 90 figures. Add a mounted Divisional General and it would look OK I think....and a Division at a bargain price as well:relaxed:

Re: Some parameters

Sir, thank you for taking the time to formulate such a detailed & clever solution but I must respond with "no".

I'm sorry if I appear ungrateful but see my comments on, "the look of the thing".
Every battalion, no matter what size, must have a 4 figure command stand: commonly, officer, musician, ensign & NCO. These figures, at the head of a column, the middle of a line or the front face of a square, *must* look good & not like some jury-rigged conversions.

This is, of course, a long standing problem. My best solution was found in the HaT MAC sets, where I could purchase enough command figures to fit my exacting needs.

Again, apologies for spurning your excellent suggestions.

donald

Re: Some parameters

Paint dog
Sir, thank you for taking the time to formulate such a detailed & clever solution but I must respond with "no".

I'm sorry if I appear ungrateful but see my comments on, "the look of the thing".
Every battalion, no matter what size, must have a 4 figure command stand: commonly, officer, musician, ensign & NCO. These figures, at the head of a column, the middle of a line or the front face of a square, *must* look good & not like some jury-rigged conversions.

This is, of course, a long standing problem. My best solution was found in the HaT MAC sets, where I could purchase enough command figures to fit my exacting needs.

Again, apologies for spurning your excellent suggestions.

donald
Always happy to provide a view where I can:upside_down_face:

My Russians are mainly by 'the other Russian company' and their five-figure command set provides the extra figures I need; same style and scale.

Having said that, I'd not want to put four command figures at the head of only six other ranks (definitely wouldn't look at all 'right')..so I quite understand your dilemma.

Would be great if Strelets started producing command sets - perhaps as mini-boxes of four sprues and, say, 20 figures per box.

Re: How many men do you have in your battalions?


As far as I'm concerned, I'm not a gamer and I like the mass effect, I use 1: 1 for my infantry scale. So I have French battalions of 700 to 840 men with a single flag, 10 drums and 2 bugles ... but I think I am the only one here to do so. :slightly_smiling_face:

For the cavalry I use a 1: 4 ratio.

I hope the machine translation will be correct this time ...

Re: How many men do you have in your battalions?

Wagram

As far as I'm concerned, I'm not a gamer and I like the mass effect, I use 1: 1 for my infantry scale. So I have French battalions of 700 to 840 men with a single flag, 10 drums and 2 bugles ... but I think I am the only one here to do so. :slightly_smiling_face:

For the cavalry I use a 1: 4 ratio.

I hope the machine translation will be correct this time ...
That must look impressive!

How many of these huge 1:1 French battalions do you have? And how large a table do you need to deploy them?

Re: How many men do you have in your battalions?

I don't wargame, not any more, I gave up after facing a particularly childish outburst from one opponent in response to my militia brigade routing his guards.

My collection is based on the real armies themselves. Of course sources differ/argue but my French average 20, though vary from 10 to 26.
By comparison the Prussians and allies average 26 ranging from 14 to 43.

Cavalry average 16 across the board. Artillery has one gun and crew per troop/company plus a team of horses and drivers with either a limber or caisson in support. Wargamers will be jumping up and down saying how do you play half companies with one gun? To which I reply, I don't wargame!

In all 12,000 figures, which are awaiting Netherlands Carabineers and Prussian artillery train to compete the deal. Though I don't mind waiting a little longer for these if it means Alan gets his LRDG, and we get a little peace ;0)

Re: How many men do you have in your battalions?

16 men here for an average SYW battalion of say 500-600 men, larger formations a total of 18/20 and weaker ones about 12, all carrying 2 colours. The number being more of a compromise btw time invested and a nice variety/number of units.

My WSS/GNW: 16 men

Cavalry 8, arty 4.

Cheers,

N.

Re: How many men do you have in your battalions?

Hi

Short answer is 24.

The rules I use are more concerned with the number of 'bases' rather than figures. Black Powder, General D Armee and Honours of War current favorite sets

Essentially for a standard battalion four bases works, and for WSS and Napoleonics 6 figs in two rows per base looks right to us (40mm aware bases)

For Napoleonics then would throw in additional bases of Skirmishers but more at a Brigade level. 2 or 3 figures to a base.

For units that were larger or small add base or two


We like big games so that works, if doing a smaller campaign such as War of 1812 may be tempted to use larger battalion (say36) for the aesthetics.


Cheers




Re: How many men do you have in your battalions?

I use Carnage and Glory computer moderated rules. My battalions
are 4-6 figures, my cavalry regiments are 4-6 figures, my artillery
is 1 gun per battery. Carnage and Glory has a system that keeps
track of exactly how many men you have fit, are wounded, or missing
so basing is more for color than counting.