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Re: More super highlanders

Hi,
I agree, great painting and diorama.
Very inspiring.
cheers
CPN

Re: More super highlanders

Thus, I think painting the piper in a green coat is wrong.

This negates the possibility of the colonel dressing his "pet" piper how he pleased.

At any rate, please feel free to comment and correct my opinions.


Hello Paint Dog,

I think it is a good thing that we can discuss such uniform issues here in the forum.
There are still things I need to learn.

Unfortunately, I do not know the details of the uniform of the pipers in the non-Royal regiments at Waterloo exactly. That's why I kept to the sources I have when i was painting.
Surely you are well-known with the Highland uniforms.
So it would be great if you could tell me how to paint the piper of the 79 th Regt correctly.
Then I am able to correct the painting.

Uniform regulations

Gerd


Hello Paint Dog,

I think it is a good thing that we can discuss such uniform issues here in the forum.
There are still things I need to learn.

Unfortunately, I do not know the details of the uniform of the pipers in the non-Royal regiments at Waterloo exactly. That's why I kept to the sources I have when i was painting.
Surely you are well-known with the Highland uniforms.
So it would be great if you could tell me how to paint the piper of the 79 th Regt correctly.
Then I am able to correct the painting.
Gerd,

please don't think I am some sort of expert.

I think there was always a lot of leeway with regards to following uniform regulation in any army in the Napoleonic Wars. A regimental/battalion colonel, for example could often do as he pleased. I'm reminded of the time when Napoleon dictated various regulations about carrying eagles & which fanions to use etc. These rules (from Napoleon!) were often ignored.
So uniform regulations might be better seen as a broad guide rather than a strict ruling.

So, back to your lovely Highlanders.

Officially the piper was not on the strength. A Highland colonel, who may have been a clan chief or son of one, often commanded a unit with a large proportion of clan members recruited to fight with their traditional leaders. There may well have been English & Irish soldiers in the ranks but a Napoleonic Highland unit has a distinct Highland character.

Hence, the colonel would recruit & pay (out of his own pocket) bagpiper(s) to foster morale amongst his men. So, technically, they were not musicians and should not wear the reversed colour coats. I will repeat, the colonel may well have put his piper(s) into any coat he wanted though. So green isn't necessarily wrong for your piper but wasn't official.

In Wellington's army, a General Order of 25 September 1811 stated that because the loss of drummers in action 'may be ascribed to the marked difference of their dress, their clothing may be of the same colour as that worn by their respective regiments", with distinctions just in the lace. The order seems somewhat ambiguous and does not seem to have been obeyed universally. So, again, please yourself.

I hope this helps & if anyone with more knowledge than me wants to join in, great!

donald

Re: Uniform regulations

I believe that the Highland regiments were allowed two pipers to be on the strength as drummers. That is two drummers of the grenadier company could actually be pipers but they were listed and paid (and, can we assume, uniformed) as drummers. Any additional pipers would have to be privately funded.

C.E. Franklin has the drummers jacket of the 79th in 1814 as being dark green with white collar and red cuffs with a white fringe but the illustration of said jacket is labelled as 1805-1812 so 1814 might be a misprint.

The other Highland regiments with green facings were the 73rd and 94th, both of whom lost highland distinction in 1809 and the 97th who were disbanded in 1795. There seems to be no record of drummers uniforms for these regiments apart from an example of drummers lace for the 94th; red, white & green; and a record of the lace for sergeants, drummers and pipers of the 97th being silver. Reversed colours seem quite possible.

I think Donald might be right about reversed colours not surviving till the time of Waterloo. At least I hope he's right because I painted pipers in red jackets and it didn't even occur to me until recently to check if that was correct.

Franklin says that in 1812 the colour of drummers jackets in all line regiments changed to red with the exception of the foot guards and royal regiments who retained scarlet; but his uniform plates for several regiments have reverse colour drummer jackets labelled as being in use until 1815 so perhaps there is some ambiguity, or perhaps the regulations weren't universally adhered to or perhaps it's just dodgy proof reading. Records for drummers uniforms seem to be a bit sketchy and I haven't seen any actual records for pipers uniforms (granted my resources are severely limited) so I don't think a green coated piper is going to worry me too much.

Anyway Gerd, I think your highlanders look terrific, soldiers standing at attention are not my favourite thing but seeing them so nicely painted does make them very attractive.:slightly_smiling_face:

Re: Uniform regulations

Graeme
I believe that the Highland regiments were allowed two pipers to be on the strength as drummers. That is two drummers of the grenadier company could actually be pipers but they were listed and paid (and, can we assume, uniformed) as drummers. Any additional pipers would have to be privately funded.

C.E. Franklin has the drummers jacket of the 79th in 1814 as being dark green with white collar and red cuffs with a white fringe but the illustration of said jacket is labelled as 1805-1812 so 1814 might be a misprint.

The other Highland regiments with green facings were the 73rd and 94th, both of whom lost highland distinction in 1809 and the 97th who were disbanded in 1795. There seems to be no record of drummers uniforms for these regiments apart from an example of drummers lace for the 94th; red, white & green; and a record of the lace for sergeants, drummers and pipers of the 97th being silver. Reversed colours seem quite possible.

I think Donald might be right about reversed colours not surviving till the time of Waterloo. At least I hope he's right because I painted pipers in red jackets and it didn't even occur to me until recently to check if that was correct.

Franklin says that in 1812 the colour of drummers jackets in all line regiments changed to red with the exception of the foot guards and royal regiments who retained scarlet; but his uniform plates for several regiments have reverse colour drummer jackets labelled as being in use until 1815 so perhaps there is some ambiguity, or perhaps the regulations weren't universally adhered to or perhaps it's just dodgy proof reading. Records for drummers uniforms seem to be a bit sketchy and I haven't seen any actual records for pipers uniforms (granted my resources are severely limited) so I don't think a green coated piper is going to worry me too much.

Anyway Gerd, I think your highlanders look terrific, soldiers standing at attention are not my favourite thing but seeing them so nicely painted does make them very attractive.:slightly_smiling_face:
Graeme, thanks for joining in with your excellent post. I am glad to "pick your brain" & learn a little on what is a fascinating subject.

donald

Re: Uniform regulations

If I may interject here; I have learned from this discussion. I was unaware of a change in the regulation concerning regimental musicians in the British Army as many of my references showed the older format. So it's always educational to follow these threads - even if it means I have a lot of repainting to do. LOL