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Re: Questioning these Pikemen we keep seeing

Edwardian




Again, if someone can explain what they are, I would be very happy to be educated on the point.



With regards to historical accuracy of figures, I'd put myself as a '7'. It's important but as this is a hobby and you can't always get what you want, I'm prepared to make compromises.

However, I'd be a fool if I didn't recognise others are both more stringent & less discerning in their approach to historicity.

So: the offending pikemen. If I was going to collect a WSS army and I'd agreed these had no place in fact, I'd wouldn't use them but others might & I would not judge them.

Unicuique suum.

I do, BTW, applaud your obvious knowledge & search for the truth.

Re: Questioning these Pikemen we keep seeing

Thank you, and, indeed, I wouldn't criticise anyone for using them as whatever they want. For me they'd be an Imagination unit!

Just questioning the value of producing them. But, if they're produced, they're produced, and the World will keep turning!

Re: Questioning these Pikemen we keep seeing

According to Nosworthy, "The Anatomy of Victory", p.42, Louis XIV introduced the use of socket bayonet in all regiments with a circular of November 11, 1692. Moreover he records at p.43 that Villars was allowed to remove pikes from the Army of Italy from January 16, 1702. However shortage of flintlocks prevented the full elimination of pikes until 1708...

Re: Questioning these Pikemen we keep seeing

The "third" pikeman shown, with pike horizontal. Doesn't he look more like Russian? At least compared to the two previous pikemen shown. Maybe Strelets is also making a further Russian set for the Great Northern War? The Russian army during GNW did use pikes to some extent, at least first half including at Battle of Poltava 1709 (please correct me if I'm wrong!).

Re: Questioning these Pikemen we keep seeing

To clarify the history. All major nations still had pikes at the beginning of the WSS but some of the smaller nations had stopped using them.

The numbers of pikes used varied but was usually between 1 pike to 2 - 5 muskets. The exact ratio is often complicated as it depended on how many grenadiers were used.

The Austrians, and the French in Italy, stopped using pikes in 1702 & so wouldn't have them in 1703.

The French issued a general withdraw in late 1703. Some were still in use in garrison units in 1704 but were soon gone.

The 'British' stopped using them in the field in 1704 but retained them until 1706 elsewhere. It is not known if the 'British' units in the Blenheim campaign had swapped their pikes and so could be with or without pikes - there are arguments either way.

The Dutch issued the order to stop using pikes in late 1708 and withdrew them in early 1709.

Going to other armies of the time the Swedes officially used 1 pike to 2 muskets, but grenadiers were extra to this, until the end of this era. But shortages of pikes meant many low quality/status units had less than this or even none. After 1709 the shortages became more widespread but pikes were still used if available.

The Russians varied the numbers of pikes used during the period and also didn't always use them, although they did when fighting 'Western' foes. It was not until the 1720's that they stopped using pikes.

I have not seen the figures but pikes were used extensively in the early part of the WSS. I would also guess it would be relatively easy to convert the pikes into spontoons/halberds/standard bearers/etc.