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Question for Forum Historians Re: WSS compared with French & Indian Wars and Seven Years War

There's a good half century time difference between them, so IMO it would be like trying to use Napoleonic figures for say, the Crimean war.....you might get away with some units, at a push.

Question for Forum Historians Re: WSS compared with French & Indian Wars and Seven Years War

Thank you Stuart! Because I live in the U.S., I'm trying to find some kind of war or battle that I could use these beautiful sets for. Hopefully a conflict here, or in Canada. These countries in the early days was fought over by many armies, so I'm hopeful even for a "lost command" of these guys making footprints either here or North!

Again, many thank yous! - GC

Question for Forum Historians Re: WSS compared with French & Indian Wars and Seven Years War

Garrison: Queen Anne's War, was the North American part of the War of Austrian Succession. I'm not sure how many regulars were involved in actions, but there were many involved in King George's War, the North American phase of the War of Austrian Succession. It features the capture of Louisbourg in 1745.

The figures would be fine for that as they were still pre-turnbacks at that stage, I'm pretty certain...

Imaginations

Thanks, GC. I think Stuart & James, clearly knowledgeable members, have filled in the gaps.

Now: a possible solution for your problem: Imaginations.

In case you don't know, there's a type of wargaming that purposely deviates from the strict factual record of history. It's called 'Imaginations' (ie imaginary nations).

Most famously, Charles Grant wrote books about his imaginary SYW-like wargaming. In particular,he developed his two countries, The Grand Duchy of Lorraine and the Vereingten Frei Stadt (or "VFS" for short) forces loosely patterned after the armies of France and Prussia, respectively. The units might have unhistorical designations & be dressed in different colours. e.g. His Serene Highnesses Sharpshooters dressed in burnt orange. etc

So, you could create two countries ("Canickistan" & the "Federation of United Provinces") who are at war with each other & whose troops dressed like Strelets' WSS, AWI Minute Men & a variety of native Americans.

I don't use Imaginations myself but acknowledge the pioneers & contemporary gamers who do.

Any use?



Re: Imaginations

I second that. We've had great fun fighting over the Sultanate of Mowabe in an alternate 1890s, as the rapacious European countries of Ruhritania, Karelia and the Republique of Kornucopia clashed with each other and the Sultan's forces. Later in an alternate 1960s the People's Republic of Mowabe defended itself against VIA backed insurgents. Have fun!

Question for Forum Historians Re: WSS compared with French & Indian Wars and Seven Years War

Virtually all my battles are make believe. Just have fun and do what you want.

Question for Forum Historians Re: WSS compared with French & Indian Wars and Seven Years War

I would say that they are not really suitable for the Seven Years War, or for the War of Austrian Succession, for that matter.

British regulars from 1742 (date of the famous clothing book) are characterised by facing lapels, cuffs with a cut-out and turnbacks.

You will find some units, e.g. some militia, SYW American Provincials and volunteer units at the time of the Jacobite Rebellion, who have plain collarless coats without turnbacks. Some may have stockings rather gaiters. See examples in Red Box Set 72051.

As has been mentioned, this also describes the coats, at least, of most French Infantry units, including those in New France, during the SYW.

However, the problem you will have is the fact that WSS coats had turnback cuffs that are seated well up the arm, revealing the shirt sleeve and/or the sleeve of a sleeved waistcoat. In other words, it is as if the coat sleeve would be full length only if you turned down the cuffs.

Fashions moved on and the fiction that a turnback cuff would ever be turned down was abandoned and, at least by the 1740s, military sleeves were full length with the cuff turned back.

A parallel is perhaps found with turnbacks on coat tails; by the Napoleonic period, "turnbacks" were non-functional and merely representative, reflecting the fact that no-one wore coat tails unturned-back.

As has been mentioned, you would find these British WSS uniforms in North America at the time of 'Queen Anne's War'; the Government's Independent Companies would be clothed in this fashion.

Question for Forum Historians Re: WSS compared with French & Indian Wars and Seven Years War

"I live in the U.S. and am looking for an excuse to buy these excellent sets! Would sure appreciate any of your advice and guidance."

Why does living in the US exclude the possibility of collecting/gaming the Wars of the Spanish Succession? A typically colourful European War with many large sieges and set piece battles - it would repay your interest.
With regard to your question - I would add my voice to those above in saying that teh figures would not be suitable for FIW - it should also be noted that regular troops formed a very small part of the forces on either side during that war - marines and militia, coureur du bois etc played a large part.

Question for Forum Historians Re: WSS compared with French & Indian Wars and Seven Years War

I heartily agree. The European theatres would have been very varied and colourful, with plenty going on.

If the OP feels constrained to stick to North American, British troops and colonial militias would find themselves pitted against the Spanish, the French and Native Americans at various points in and around the period of "Queen Anne's War". This would be ideal if you wanted to try small engagements with modest forces.

Some, like the Carolina Militia wore no uniform, but military coats resembled civilian dress, so you can always paint up your infantrymen as civilians in suitable buffs, browns, greys and greens, with the officers in red.

The government troops were represented by Independent Companies, which would resemble the Strelets British Infantry exactly; paint them red with blue cuffs.

Remove the cartridge box from the right hip of your Strelets British Infantry and add a ventral pouch and you can paint them up as Spanish.

Question for Forum Historians Re: WSS compared with French & Indian Wars and Seven Years War

Thank you everyone for sharing your knowledge and information about this new range of figures - WSS. It looks like that during the time line of the French & Indian Wars of 1688 - 1763, there was the WSS from 1701 - 1714 with the Queen Anne's War overlapping in North America from 1702 - 1713. Now the seed has been planted for me to begin collecting this era and also learning more and more about it. I spent most of Sunday reading and re-reading your information. I really enjoyed it.

I have always enjoyed buying Playsets since I was a kid. They have a kind of built-in theme, especially Frontier Days with Davey Crocket & the Alamo, and many AWI sets, ACW, but none I know of for WSS. So now I think I will begin my putting together my own Playset theme built around the Queen Anne's War, and include Fort Maurepas (completed 1699 by French I believe) and enjoy a little imagination/make-believe battling with a little historical mixed in with British Americans, French, and Indians being fielded for some winter enjoyment. This era will be brand new for me.

I'm not a historical purist, but I do enjoy recreating events likely to have happened. So you gentlemen have given me some very exciting new information to set me off on this new toy soldiering journey. Thank you! - GC

Question for Forum Historians Re: WSS compared with French & Indian Wars and Seven Years War

Some uniforms and flags in America, c. 1690 - c. 1720

French
http://cmhg-phmc.forces.gc.ca/cmh-pmc/image-72-eng.aspx?page=66
http://cmhg-phmc.forces.gc.ca/cmh-pmc/image-133-eng.aspx?page=144
http://cmhg-phmc.forces.gc.ca/cmh-pmc/image-96-eng.aspx?page=96
http://cmhg-phmc.forces.gc.ca/cmh-pmc/image-118-eng.aspx?page=121
http://cmhg-phmc.forces.gc.ca/cmh-pmc/image-94-eng.aspx?page=93
http://cmhg-phmc.forces.gc.ca/cmh-pmc/image-147-eng.aspx?page=165
http://cmhg-phmc.forces.gc.ca/cmh-pmc/image-170-eng.aspx?page=215
http://cmhg-phmc.forces.gc.ca/cmh-pmc/image-171-eng.aspx?page=215
http://cmhg-phmc.forces.gc.ca/cmh-pmc/image-174-eng.aspx?page=215
http://cmhg-phmc.forces.gc.ca/cmh-pmc/image-98-eng.aspx?page=101
http://cmhg-phmc.forces.gc.ca/cmh-pmc/image-101-eng.aspx?page=108
http://cmhg-phmc.forces.gc.ca/cmh-pmc/image-93-eng.aspx?page=171
http://cmhg-phmc.forces.gc.ca/cmh-pmc/image-74-eng.aspx?page=66
http://cmhg-phmc.forces.gc.ca/cmh-pmc/image-165-eng.aspx?page=214
http://cmhg-phmc.forces.gc.ca/cmh-pmc/image-82-eng.aspx?page=74




British
http://cmhg-phmc.forces.gc.ca/cmh-pmc/image-86-eng.aspx?page=85
http://cmhg-phmc.forces.gc.ca/cmh-pmc/image-168-eng.aspx?page=215
http://cmhg-phmc.forces.gc.ca/cmh-pmc/image-167-eng.aspx?page=215
http://cmhg-phmc.forces.gc.ca/cmh-pmc/image-176-eng.aspx?page=215



Indian
http://cmhg-phmc.forces.gc.ca/cmh-pmc/image-79-eng.aspx?page=89


From this site:

http://cmhg-phmc.forces.gc.ca/cmh-pmc/page-1-eng.aspx


A lot of information on all aspects of military life and events in Nouvelle France and New England. Check it out.

Question for Forum Historians Re: WSS compared with French & Indian Wars and Seven Years War

Wow, great resource pictures! I did check all of the links, and those even led me to lists and pictures of the Hudson Bay Company's old forts and stockades of the time, mentioning they were built to service the newly discovered fur trade before some becoming military posts.

I hope no one interprets my lack of knowledge or any of my comments as disrespectful. Learning this level of detail for this era prior to the AWI 1776 is mostly new to me and very colorful. That's what I meant by "... a reason to buy these (WSS) new figures."

OK, thank you, again all - GC