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Re: Masters for WWI Turkish Infantry in tropical uniform are up.

Pa, it looks like a Vickers to me too, can they be used as the same unit ?, not 100% sure but probably yes, I have seen one or two photo`s of units with mixed headgear. Both sides kitted out Arabs with uniforms, but both sides wore local headgear, so they for the most part could pass for Iraqi or Syrian troops in Ottoman service.

Re: Masters for WWI Turkish Infantry in tropical uniform are up.

I think some attempt has been made to turn the Vickers into a Maxim via a deeper breech, though I think the cooling jacket still needs to be smooth rather then ribbed (improved cooling more area) though it would be an easy fix if your so inclined...

The Turks were apparantly quite fond of using Hotchkiss MGs(captured)but as this came from a Light Horseman he probably meant the Hotchkiss Portative (not the HMG though they did have a few) used by the ALH...

The Turkish Army was very short of MGs so I guess anything usable and with ammo would be pressed into service even if only for as long as the ammo lasted or the gun remained operable...

A good site to check out http://www.turkeyswar.com/

I think the Rifle is the Mauser model 1890:

http://www.turkmauser.com/90/

Re: Masters for WWI Turkish Infantry in tropical uniform are up.

Wow!! Another "must buy", even though this is not my area of interest.

Re: Masters for WWI Turkish Infantry in tropical uniform are up.

Nice looking figures. Shame some people can't just leave it at that. These new figures will probably be around the same size as the HaT figures, so all the various Ottoman sets should complement one another.

Many of these new figures could be used to fight against the Turks. The British successfully encouraged many soldiers to turn against their former masters, and they still used their old Turk uniform. That could explain the Vickers (supplied by the British), although I'd rather see a German MG08. Wasn't there also a large amount of Japanese Arisaka rifles in this theatre, having been rushed there by the British, or am I getting my theatres mixed up? Could the rifles be those?

And how about film footage of THE ITALIAN FORCES IN PALESTINE

Maybe we'll see some of the elusive Italians, French, or Austrians who were also in this theatre? Or switch continents and make some Senussi.

Re: Masters for WWI Turkish Infantry in tropical uniform are up.

Just in case your wondering about the Turkish Tripod mounted Maxim, this Should be the Commercial Model 1909 produced by the DEUTSCHE WAFFEN-UND MUNITIONSFABRIKEN "DWM" and was considered to be a "light" machine gun at 17kg, over 1500 it seems were supplied to the Turkish Army during WW1....


http://jamesdjulia.com/item/1008-369/
http://www.maximgun.de/deutschland/dwm-modell-1909/

Though its clear a similar looking Vickers has be used instead for the model...

Re: Masters for WWI Turkish Infantry in tropical uniform are up.

Thanks for providing additional info and comments.

So the machine gun seems a captured Vickers indeed. The tripod is fine but I'd vote for having the barrel replaced by a Maxim one.

The rifles are correct for Ottomans, but the one on the loader's back is too fat. The clumsy stick grenade should be replaced by a smaller one.

Not saying they are wrong, but I could not find out which troops used those sword bayonets.

Offically the Fez was not worn in combat, but it adds flavor, so we can exchange the same comments like about turbans, slouch hats or sun helmets in combat.

Still not sure different headgear was worn within the same unit, keffiyeh and kabalak.
http://www.ottoman-uniforms.com/ww1-ottoman-army-uniforms/

From same website of a respected expert: "Currently, most model (...) WW1 Turkish soldiers represent the infantry as wearing German–style ‘Y’ harness. This equipment was never worn by Turkish WW1 Soldiers."
http://www.ottoman-uniforms.com/ww1-ottoman-army-officers-uniforms-and-field-equipment/

So I'd really like to see some changes in this set, which has enormous potential as the figures are so nice.

Re: Masters for WWI Turkish Infantry in tropical uniform are up.

Heres a pic of a number of captured "Turkish" MGs, the soldiers are Arab Revolt not Turks per se... The Guns include two Russian Maxims, a bunch of other water cooled maxims, probably MG08s/MG09s and what looks like some light machine guns on bipod mounts (though they may not be) these could be Lewis, Hotchiss, Madsen or even Schwazlose MGs...

Captured Mgs

All these guns have been in use by the Turks and in this case would likely be used by the Arab forces post capture.... Ammo and parts willing

1500 plus pics from the Arab Revolt:

T E LAWRENCE AND THE ARAB REVOLT 1916 - 1918



Re: Masters for WWI Turkish Infantry in tropical uniform are up.

Thank you Ironsides. I was unable to spot an Ottoman in Y straps. This page does not mention them either (scroll down to see the equipment kit):
http://www.ottoman-uniforms.com/ww1-ottoman-army-uniforms/

Re: Masters for WWI Turkish Infantry in tropical uniform are up.

Some more photos (243) this time Turkish, Austrians and Germans.. somewhere in there is a pic of Turkish soldiers with captured Lewis guns...

World War I in Palestine and the Sinai

I do have a photo of German? troops in tropical kit using a Bergmann LMG so its possible some of those captured MGs previously shown are Bergmanns, but it does prove at least that almost anything is possible as far as MGs are concerned...

http://modernfirearms.net/machine/de/machine-gun-bergmann-1915-mg-15-na-e.html

I cant say I've seen a Y strap on any Turkish troops, fact is it doesn't seem to be a popular method during WW1 other then possibly for German cavalry...
The usual method seems to be an improvised strap around the back of the neck supporting the belt, now this I have seen on Turkish soldiers...

Re: Masters for WWI Turkish Infantry in tropical uniform are up.

ironsides
Heres a pic of a number of captured "Turkish" MGs, the soldiers are Arab Revolt not Turks per se... The Guns include two Russian Maxims, a bunch of other water cooled maxims, probably MG08s/MG09s and what looks like some light machine guns on bipod mounts (though they may not be) these could be Lewis, Hotchiss, Madsen or even Schwazlose MGs...

Captured Mgs

All these guns have been in use by the Turks and in this case would likely be used by the Arab forces post capture.... Ammo and parts willing




It anyone was interested in this pic of captured Turkish MGS an article here gives some details:

"On 26 January a large force of Turks from Kerak attacked the Arabs at Seil el-Hesa, where severe fighting took place. This resulted in a brilliant victory for the Arabs, who killed 500 of the enemy and captured 250, including Hamid Bey, the O.C. 48th Division. Only about fifty Turks escaped in the direction of Kerak, and all officers were killed or captured. The booty consisted of two powerful Austrian mountain guns, nine automatic rifles*, twenty-three machine-guns (including fifteen German Maxim machine-guns) and 800 rifles. About 200 mules and horses were also taken and distributed among the Bedouin."

http://www.telstudies.org/writings/works/articles_essays/180211_first_reports_from_tafila.shtml

*maybe captured Lewis or Hotchkiss guns in use by the Turkish forces, machine guns refers to Hmgs on tripod or other forms of mountings.

An account of the battle by T.E.Lawrence worth reading:

http://www.telstudies.org/writings/works/articles_essays/1918_battle_of_seil_el-Hasa.shtml



Re: Masters for WWI Turkish Infantry in tropical uniform are up.

Thank you Ironsides. The mentioning of "automatic rifles" is rather intriguing.

Re: Masters for WWI Turkish Infantry in tropical uniform are up.

Pa
Thank you Ironsides. The mentioning of "automatic rifles" is rather intriguing.


It's what was then the common term at least in English for what we would now call a light machine gun, and most likley used in the case of any bipod mounted weapon such as the Lewis, Hotchkiss portative(as used by ALH and at least some by Arab troops as Lawrence mentions them, as well as the Turks who used captured examples), Madsen, CSRG Chauchat and possibly the light Bergman etc...
My understanding is that any gun on a fixed mounting like a tripod, and capable of sustained fire was considered a Machine Gun proper...

Re: Masters for WWI Turkish Infantry in tropical uniform are up.

Thanks again. I was not aware of that.