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Difference between a Dane & a Saxon?

In the Bad Old Days, the myth was Vikings had horned helmets. This was probably a useful way of telling them apart from Saxons on a wargames' table. I doubt any of us follow this mistake, so what is the difference in appearance between Danes & Saxons?

Two-handed axe? Early on, maybe but certainly the later Anglo-Danes were also carrying them.

Are there essentially any difference?

BTW as I mentioned in a thread below, we had our SAGA "tournament" on Thursday. Lots of short & exciting games; challenges issued, loud boasts & table-thumping & much laughter & enjoyment. SAGA is highly recommended for your DARK AGES gaming pleasure.

Re: Difference between a Dane & a Saxon?

Not all that much difference. The Saxon military force, the Fyrd, was composed
of Thanes, who would have been well-armed and armored, and peasants, who would lack
armor, except possibly a simple helmet, and would, at best, be armed with a spear and
round shield. All Saxons would also carry a large knife called a Seax (which gave
the Saxons their name). many of the Fyrd would have only pitchforks, axes and clubs
for weapons. Obviously the peasants would greatly outnumber the Thanes in any army.
The Vikings on the other hand would have been better armed and armored, since
they have time to get ready before launching a raid. Since the Saxons were an agri-
cultural society, they could not tie up men for long periods of time since they had
to work their farms. This meant that Saxon forces that faced the Vikings were pretty
much hastily thrown together forces.
It was the mobility of the Vikings, not their ferocity, that made them such
a tough opponent. Their long ships allowed them to raid and withdraw before the
Saxons could react. The Saxons themselves were a war-like people, when they could
gather adequate forces for a stand-up battle they stood a fair chance for victory.


Re: Difference between a Dane & a Saxon?

i have always imagined that since vikings traded all over the place,they would be a more cosmopolitan bunch.taking arms,mail,and head gear from russia,europe,and the islamic world.
saxons would be a more uniform bunch,more or less.

Jomsvikings

Interesting.

I've been contemplating the Jomsvikings. As mercenaries, they might even be more travelled than the average viking.

Going by your comments, it would be best to have some of the figures clad/armed a little more exotically?

A conversion challenge.

Re: Jomsvikings

i would think so.i have read and watched things about excavations of viking places,where they had found goods from all over the known world.i would imagine a damascus steel sword was just as valuable to a viking if they could trade for them as it was to anyone else.im no expert tho,just puzzling thru with common sense.

Re: Jomsvikings

tom s
.im no expert tho,just puzzling thru with common sense.


On the contrary. I appreciate your input.
The Dark Ages is not an area I know much about.

Re: Jomsvikings

There is some doubt as to whether the Jomsvikings ever existed in real life, as opposed to the Sagas; the same goes for the berserkers.
As for exotic costume, a few figures in the various Viking sets have fur hats and baggy trousers, associated with the eastern vikings who roamed as far as the Black Sea and Constantinople.

Re: Jomsvikings

mike b
There is some doubt as to whether the Jomsvikings ever existed in real life, as opposed to the Sagas; the same goes for the berserkers.
As for exotic costume, a few figures in the various Viking sets have fur hats and baggy trousers, associated with the eastern vikings who roamed as far as the Black Sea and Constantinople.


you could take a few of those figures from the 2 rus sets from orion.

Re: Jomsvikings

I always thought the way to tell Celts from Saxons and Vikings were that a Celt would gut you and maybe feel bad about it (and maybe not), a Saxon would gut you and not give it a second thought, and a Viking would gut you and laugh.

But I don't know if that would help in selecting which figures to use.

Saxons

One thing with regard to the cosmopolitan nature of Vikings, is that it probably also applies to the Saxons - just to confuse things totally.

Some of the recent finds in saxon hordes etc suggest a very busy set of trade routes right through as far as Byzantium. Garnet and other semi-precious stones are quite common, garnet especially as based on the horde found near the M6 Toll in Staffordshire. so much so that red and gold might be a good theme colour for a saxon army.

The Saxons also fared to Byzantium where some of them enlisted and fought in the Varangian Guard (IIRC Harold Godwinson was one), so the better off saxons were exposed to as many cosmopolitan influences as the vikings were.

Re: Saxons

Great suggestion Steve.Garnet and gold also feature heavily in the Sutton Hoo burial. This is a good option for any decorative metal on Saxon shields, helmet crests, belt buckles, strap ends, shoulder clasps, sword pommels and scabbard chapes and mounts.

If you want to avail yourself of some SERIOUS historical knowledge then Bernard Cornwell says an identifying feature of the Danes is portable property. Not just their belief that everyone else's property is portable but their love of wearing their gold and silver in the form of arm rings and torques as a show of status and for gift giving. Also all of Cornwell's Danes wear a Thor's Hammer amulet around their necks. All of them.

In truth the biggest difference in their appearance might have been the Vikings salt stained clothing.

Re: Saxons

Gold and Garnets is something that is specfic to an era which isnt generally the Viking Age normally thought of as being post 793ad, anybody who was anyone was reconisable by the quality of their clothing an expensive commodity in a time when everything had to be done by hand... silk for example was a rarity and only worn by the very rich and at least one Scandinavian king went under his mound in a gown containing gold thread...

If you want somthing specific then that might be a sword with a silver inlaid hilt possibly with niello decoration for a wealthy man of a specific type, for warriors looking to join Cnuts Huscarls(1013ad)it was a requirement to become a member, that and owning a mail shirt....

It would a good question if you could tell the difference, I suspect in the hair.. Anglo-Saxons seem to favour short hair and mustaches and otherwise clean shaven unless old, possibly to some degree the clothes almost certainly the language and often but not always the religion, and Scadinavians likes Axes a lot.... but otherwise a knee length tunic, mail shirt, a conical or occasionally domed helmet, sword, spear and round shield would be normal during most of the age...

Your mistaking Harold Godwinson for Harold Hardrada see "King Harolds Saga" Snorri Sturluson, Anglo-Danes/Saxons better to call them English joined the Varangian guard after 1066...



Re: Saxons

norway,sweden,rus,constantinople,asia minor.
hardrada sure got around before stamford bridge.

Re: Saxons

Fought in battle at 15 died in battle at 51.... a true Viking King

Re: Saxons

ironsides
Your mistaking Harold Godwinson for Harold Hardrada see "King Harolds Saga" Snorri Sturluson, Anglo-Danes/Saxons better to call them English joined the Varangian guard after 1066...


You're right - I wrote it was work and couldn't check the details.

Re: Saxons

hardrada fought with the varangian guard in a couple of battles in italy,against the normans and lombards.
would there be any real difference by this time between lombards in italy and normans?
(i hope its ok to ask in this thread)

p.s.
viking varangian guards.sounds like a neat set to make.