I went with strictly the main Roman troops be they Imperial or Republican! So no splitting hairs on era!

The French are what is simply called 'line infantry' by PSR, which I felt was amongst the most over done type of set!

Your numbers are way off, Bert. If you copy and paste all the WW2 "Germans" from Plastic Soldier Review into Excel you will see that it comes to 123. Even allowing for rereleases of sets the people that like that sort of thing already have over 100 sets to play with.

Of course, it has been known for a long time that all the WW2 "German" sets have no adversaries, so the people who play with all their WW2 "Germans" must really enjoy playing with themselves. So you could say, they have their "celebration" every time they gaze upon their collection.

There are several sets that have be sold under different manufacturers so it may only be in the high 90s. When they hit the 100 mark I would suggest that a special set such a 100 piece 'Nuremberg parade set' or SA thugs from Caesar. Alternatively, they could produce a few sets like Strelets Stalingrad sets witch show how the German army actually was on the Eastern front.

However before I am called a 'troll' I believe that everyone should have the freedom to choose to collect third Reich stuff - its just sad that there are those out there that think of the Nazis in a positive light and will buy anything of the Third Reich era.

My #s only included strictly German INFANTRY! I did not include DAK, pioneers, paras or any other specialty troops. If they were in PSR's guide under German Infantry, I counted them! Beyond that, I did not, thus the # 43!

I'll choose to ignore the rest of your post!

So, Parachute Infantry are not infantry? Mounted Infantry are not infantry? DAK Infantry are not infantry? Infantry riding on a tank are not infantry?

I think RCD has it more accurately. The number I gave includes duplicates, for example Italeri have repackaged some Esci stuff (or vice versa. Whatever!), Revell have repackaged the Matchbox stuff, and there are a few others.

I still wouldn't be surprised if the number exceeds 100. It sure feels like it. I'd certainly wager that it's far higher than 40-something, when one includes all infantry.

But as RCD says, whatever floats your boat. If you're into the Mighty Third Reich then I guess you have over 100 reasons to be happy.

As to Caesar's name, maybe they should be called Savvy, or Good Business Sense, or Canny, or Money For Old Rope. Unless the guy's name actually is Caesar.

Zvezda Art of Tactic: 13 "German" infantry sets (including their mortars and infantry guns) and 4 more planned.

Preiser: 8 sets, or 9 if panzergrenadiers were infantry

At least there will be no 150th set - if the new custom of decimating the headcount goes on. Meaning in 2016 a Caesar or HAT box will contain just three soldiers. And a single one in 2018. So nobody can call these a ‘set’ any more. Maybe a 2020 box will just feature a random body part, so we have to buy many of them until the first figure will be completed
Hope Strelets will keep on their good work, providing us with decent sets and lots of poses!

I remember getting two sets of the Airfix Infantry Combat Group and painting one set grey to represent Germans and that was it as there was nothing else. My elder brother, of the real austerity generation, had to make do with buttons for his model soldiers and no two alike.
I suppose celebrating things when a hundred is surely a Roman thing- tens, fifties, hundreds, thousands are all good candidates. Not sure what we did before that probably celebrated everything equally all the time. "We will soon have killed our 77th Mammoth and then we can celebrate like we did when we killed the 76th and so on".

Ballodd
The logical outcome of that diminishing return would be to have two boxes with every figure. Like a variation of Panini stickers, some boxes would have no figures or just one you may have had already and then you would have to trade. Call it a game and hope nobody remembers what a waste of time and money it was back in the 70s/80s.

David

or rather like the "Extra special Limited, Very limited Editions" the boxes that came with a biblical leader, never found one in a box and I bought enough Caesar biblicals.... only this time you may get the Limited Edition bonus figure and nothing else, how many boxes would you have to buy

I remember those times. My first toy soldiers were buttons, chestnuts and beer bottles. That changed when I turned 5 :-)

Dear Ballodd,

cost of plastic in overall cost is pretty insignificant one, therefore, there's no such doom and gloom in 2020.

Best regards,

Strelets

I simply wanted to have some fun poking fun at the fact that every major manufacturers (& most minor ones!) have made a set of W2 German infantry! It is almost a rite of passage into the plastic soldier community! Not every one has made Romans (Pegasus & Imex) & only about half have made Napoleonic French, but virtually ALL have made W2 German infantry! Caesar, in particular, has a real taste for it having made 15 sets of German infantry! (Not counting their assembly series!) They should change their name to "Hitler" as their production of W2 Germans has crushed their production of Romans 25-3!

I recon "Kaiser" would do just fine

What has "Kaiser" to do with WW II Germany, Sir? Nothing at all. No, "Hitler" means to put it straight.

Fuhrer?

"Führer". Why not? Alternatively, "Gröfaz" ("Grösster Feldherr aller Zeiten", meaning "Greatest warlord of all time"...). So, "Imperator" would perhaps be the most appropriate...

Good call Graham!

WW2 is nothing more then the Second Round of WW1, without "The Kaiser", Hitler wouldn't exist..
Marshal Foch got it right when he said of the peace terms in 1919 "This is not a peace. It is an armistice for twenty years"...in other words war was inevitable...
So yes the Kaiser has everything to do with WW2 as do all the others who prompted WW1 and played in the opening credits for Armageddon.

In any case I was thinking this....
From Merriam Webster:
Origin of KAISER

Middle English, from Old Norse keisari; akin to Old High German keisur emperor; both from a prehistoric Germanic word borrowed from Latin Caesar, cognomen of the Emperor Augustus
First Known Use: 13th century

Dieser Artikel behandelt den römischen Kaiser Augustus:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustus

So entirely appropriate....

"WW2 is nothing more then the Second Round of WW1, without the Kaiser, Hitler wouldn't exist.. "?

Well, this is a post hoc. Neither Hitler's emergence and rise nor the fact that he succeeded were inevitable and foreseeable consequences of the Kaiser and WWI. And WWII was Hitler's baby, not the Kaiser's. Things could have developed quite differently - in so many ways (different regime in Germany, different sort of war, etc., etc.). They didn't, of course, but they could have.

As for your suggestion "Kaiser", I understand that you alluded to "Caesar", the company name (so obvious), I know that Augustus adopted the honorific "Caesar" (to honour Julius Caesar) but equally Augustus adopted the cognomen "Imperator" which, contrary to "Caesar" (originally nothing more than a familial name) has always been a title and function that expressly denoted a military (supreme) commander. So, considering the vast number of WWII Germans released by the company named "Caesar" and the fact that the "military supreme commander" of those ****** was Adolf Gröfaz, I hold it fit that "Caesar" might better be called "Imperator" (euphemistically, for "Hitler")...

It aint Rocket Science you know

I was once in a Rocket Science class. It wasn't too hard. But we didn't have a funny phrase to describe it.

Wrong German war, but I can live with that!

at the moment i detect:
as for nazi
10 early war infantry sets
9 late war infantry sets
8 winter infantry sets
7 afrika korps sets
4 panzergrenadiers / elite troops sets
7 paratroopers sets
2 mountain troops sets
2 volkssturm sets
15 axis allied sets (italians, romanians etc.)

as for soviets
9 infantry sets
8 winter infantry sets
2 cavalry sets
2 partisans sets
1 winter partisans set

as for british
10 infantry sets
4 paratroopers sets
4 8th army sets
3 commandos sets
5 anzac sets

as for united states
9 infantry sets (including pegasus rangers and esci french)
5 paratroopers sets
4 usmc sets
3 winter infantry sets

6 japan infantry sets

(do not count ugly or historically incorrect sets like odemars & co. junk, valiant "bigheads", atlantic indian brigade, airfix gurkhas, do not count artillery, aa, at, bicycles, motorcycles, mounted infantry, pilots, tank crews, just heavy weapons sets, wagons etc., consider zvezda mini sets as just one infantry set)

at first sight napoleonic french appears to be more than ww2 nazi...?

Imperial Romans are probably a candidate. If you include Auxiliaries, Praetorians and cavalry, even more so. If you add in republican and christen/Late Imperial, the Romans may well win the numbers game.

Just because you do not like sets you cannot simply ignore them when putting forward an argument that there are not excessive third Reich products. Personally, I detest the way certain companies pump out endless SS sets and similar ilk but it does not mean I can say they do not exist!

Not sure where you set the total figure of only 49 Nazi sets in existence! Caesar alone produce 7 infantry, 4 panzer grenadiers and 3 combat teams. I have not even looked for the likes of their SS sets. This compares to your figures 26 British sets. Suggest you have a look at PSR lists which although duplicate several sets actually shows the sets.

If naziphiles want to buy such sets so be it but its a pity the leading manufactures cannot follow Strelet's example produce more realistic
products of this brutal state like the police battalions and the Stalingrad set.

When it comes to WWII, I think the most obviously overdone subjects are "british" infantry, 8th army, paras & commandos.
Compared to the small role they played during this epic & global conflict, there's way too many sets in 1/72 wasted on this negligible ally.
This also applies to "british" infantry of the napoleonic period. When compared to the marginal numbers of troops "britain" deployed, it's easy to see that this a massively overdone subject as well.

i didn't ignore them, simply didn't count them as properly infantry sets.


never said that.


psr

actually caesar is very prolific.
i did count the two caesar waffen ss sets as panzergrenadiers / elite troops.

after all, considered all the different theatres (europe, winter and summer and africa), the different periods (early and late war) and the numerous opposing armies, i suppose there are not too many nazi german sets.

really don't understand all this hate for ww2 german sets, you could not like a historical period (i prefer ancients), but i don't "hate" gnw russian sets or napoleonic french sets, nor insult people which like them (dirty zarists and chauvinist imperialists). and there are really many napoleonic french sets. maybe there is still room for ww2 battle themed sets and/or for summer gebirsjagers, indians, gurkhas...

this set is still missing!
"large numbers of indigènes (French Algerian Tirailleurs as well as Tunisian or Moroccan Goumiers) have been recruited into the French First Army of the Free French Forces", bir kaheim french soldiers and even azad hind forces in south france! what they looked like?

If you include Atlantic sets, one gets Hitler and the SS or what is in effect a set of SA storm troopers. These are technically civilians and unarmed and perhaps should be classified with the gangster and police sets from redox, which are of the same time period, civilians but armed.

The same old boring subject...LOOSERS!

WW2

GERMANS (94)
GERMANS EARLY WAR (34): Infantry (8) - Fallschirmjager (3) - Gebirsjager (2) - Elite Troops (1) - Sturmpioniere (1) - Mounted Infantry (1) - Bicyclists (1) - Machine Gun Teams (1) - Mortar Teams (2) - PaK 3,7cm (2) - FlaK 2cm (2) - FlaK 88mm (1) - Infantry Gun 7,5cm (2) - Artillery 10,5cm (3) - Cavalry (1) - Motorcycles (3)
GERMANS WINTER WAR (14): Infantry (9) - Machine Gun Teams (1) - Mortar Teams (1) - PaK 40 (1) - PaK 7,62cm (1) - Nebelwerfer (1)
GERMAN AFRIKA KORPS (10): Infantry (7) - PaK 3,7cm (1) - FlaK 88mm (1) - Motorcycles (1)
GERMANS LATE WAR (36): Infantry (11) - Fallschirmjager (5) - Gebirsjager (1) - Panzergrenadiers (2) - Waffen SS (2) - Sturmpioniere (2) - Volkssturm (2) - Police (1) - Machine Gun Teams (1) - Heavy Weapons (1) - Mortar Teams (2) - AT Teams (1) - PaK 38 (1) - PaK 40 (2) - Infantry Gun 7,5cm (2)

RUSSIANS (47)
RUSSIANS (32): Infantry (10) - Naval Infantry (2) - Paratroopers (1) - Engineers (1) - Militia (2) - Machine Gun Teams (1) - Heavy Weapons (1) - Mortar Teams (1) - AT Teams (1) - AT Gun 45mm (2) - AT Gun ZIS 2/3 (1) - AA Machine Gun Teams (2) - AA Gun 37mm (1) - AA Gun 85mm (1) - Infantry Gun 76mm (1) - Artillery 122mm (1) - Cavalry (2) - Cossacks (1)
RUSSIANS WINTER WAR (15): Infantry (8) - Polish Infantry (1) - Partisans (1) - Support Weapons (1) - Mortar Teams (2) - AT Teams (1) - AT Gun ZIS 3 (1)

BRITISH (37)
BRITISH (32): Infantry (10) - Commonwealth Infantry (4) - Paratroopers (3) - Commandos (3) - Machine Gun Teams (2) - Mortar Teams (2) - AT Teams (1) - AT Gun 2pdr (1) - AT Gun 6pdr (2) - AA Gun Bofors 40mm (2) - Paratroopers Pack Howitzer 75mm (1) - Artillery 25 pdr (1)
BRITISH 8TH ARMY (5): Infantry (4) - Artillery 25pdr (1)

U.S. (23)
U.S. EUROPE (19): Infantry (9) - Rangers (1) - Paratroopers (5) - Mountain Troops (1) - Heavy Weapons (1) - AT Teams (1) - Mountain Gun 75mm (1)
U.S. PACIFIC (4): Marines (4)

ITALIANS (13)
ITALIANS EUROPE (8): Infantry (2) - Support Group (1) - Mountain Troops (1) - X Mas (1) - Paratroopers (1) - AA Gun 90/53 (1) - Cavalry (1)
ITALIANS AFRICA (5): Infantry (2) - Paratroopers (1) - Paratroopers Light Artillery (1) - Artillery 149/40 (1)

JAPANESE (8): Infantry (6) - Artillery 70mm (1) - Mountain Gun 75mm (1)

FRENCH (3), ROMANIANS (2), FINNISH (2), POLISH (1), HUNGARIANS (1)

NAPOLEONIC WARS

FRENCH (65+2)
French 1798-1807 (11) - Infantry (7) - Artillery (2) - Cavalry (2)
French 1808-1813 (29+1) - Infantry (11+1) - Artillery (1) - Cavalry (17)
French 1814-1815 (25+1) - Infantry (12+1) - Artillery (4) - Cavalry (9)

BRITISH (34+2)
British "Egyptian Campaign" (4) - Infantry (2) - Artillery (1) - Cavalry (1)
British "Peninsular War" (7+1) - Infantry (6) - Cavalry (1+1)
British "Waterloo" (23+1) - Infantry (11+1) - Artillery (5) - Cavalry (7)

PRUSSIANS (25+1)
Prussians 1806 (9) - Infantry (5) - Artillery (1) - Cavalry (3)
Prussians 1807-1815 (16+1) - Infantry (9+1) - Artillery (1) - Cavalry (6)

RUSSIANS (21+1)
Russians 1805 (3) - Infantry (2) - Cavalry (1)
Russians "Russian Campaign" (18+1) - Infantry (5+1) - Artillery (3) - Cavalry (10)

Austrians (10) - Infantry (7) - Artillery (1) - Cavalry (2)
Netherlands (7) - Infantry (5) - Artillery (1) - Cavalry (1)
Polish (5) - Infantry (3) - Cavalry (2)
Bavarians (4) - Infantry (2) - Artillery (1) - Cavalry (1)

Brunswick (3), Saxons (3), Swedish (3), Wurttemberg (3), Spanish (2+3), Portuguese (1)

TOTAL 48 "USABLE" WW2 GERMAN INFANTRY SETS
TOTAL 32 "USABLE" NAPOLEONIC FRENCH INFANTRY SETS (+28 CAVALRY +7 ARTILLERY)

So What? LOSER I´m happy and you don´t,I repeat LOSER!

I think you have missed out the Zvezda and Prieser sets, which would take the number over 100, and there's another one on PSR today to also add in.

I think the duplicated sets should count because how many times have the millions of non-painters told us they want a set in a variety of colours and always buy every release if it's in a different colour.

As I said, way over 100 a long time ago.

ive bought a bunch of hat napoleonic french sets in grey,blue and tan.might want to double that french list if colors are a criteria now.
of course im not sure if light grey and lighter grey for germans would count.

Colour is always a criteria - just look at how many times it gets discussed.

then the french win!
vive la tan, green, blue, silver, and grey france.

Not even close! They have less than half the number of WW2 "German" sets.

Drop the Napoleonic French Infantry sets listed on PSR into Excel and it does the counting for you - 46 including sets that are announced but not yet released. I can't see any Napoleonic sets from Zvezda in their Art of Tactic series, so 46 would seem to be the largest possible number (and it includes a handful of sets that aren't available yet).

Do the same with WW2 "Germans", just the infantry of course (including Afrika Korps, Parachute Infantry and Mountain Infantry, ie all the infantry), and you are already at 81. No need to add in the Zvezda Art of Tactic sets, and the Preiser sets, and the Infantry Support Guns crewed by Infantry, and the Luftwaffe Infantry, because the Nappy French have been left way behind!

But Bert said it's just about who reaches 100 first, not who has the most. I'm saying that that target has already been exceeded for WW2 "Germans".

The listing doesnt include the Type1 HO/OO Airfix sets (2) either though it does include other nominally HO/OO sets such as Atlantic, if other sets were also included.... Preiser 1/72 has already been mentioned with 14-15? Infantry sets, and of course currently not counted but still "Plastic" the special painted sets from Kaiser err... Caesar....I'm sure there are plenty of others probarbly long forgotten....

The truth is the total is way greater then the WW2 listing of PSR allows for or shows as far as nominally 1/72 Plastic figures go.... did Baravelli produce any German Soldiers does anyone know? and what about Japanese Manufacturers or Resin(Plastic, according to PSR and indeed it is) firms such as Milicast etc?

Anyhow if you just want to include only 1/72 soft plastic(PP PE etc) sets as designed then only sets produced from the period of the original Esci production would actually count, as Atlantic and Airfix were not originally marketed for 1/72 specifically but 1/87-1/76(HO/OO) this equally applies to the other ranges Napoleonic French and Romans etc, but probably the balance wouldn't change much overall


Have a good Day

if i multiply all the french sets in the different colors they come in,doesnt excel say they come close.

dear pda,
preiser actually missed, but not zvezda ones and not even the last caesar stalingrad set. did not count lw/evolution/odemars nor valiant. did not count duplicated sets as airfix/heller/hat or esci/italeri or matchbox/revell.
actually there are many german sets... are they enough?

No. Actually there are too many WW2 "German" sets!
I doubt there will ever be enough for fans of The Mighty 1000-Year Reich.

I don't know, tom s. Why don't you try it and let us know how it goes.

then i say again, the french win.
vive la france!

Vive La Liberte

Présenter les preuves.

46 sets that can come in light blue,medium blue,dark blue,tan,grey, and silver.en viola,the permutations boggle the mind.
vive la emperour!

The Mighty 1000-Year Reich (12 years and 3 months) sets also come in different colours. 123 multiplied by "light blue,medium blue,dark blue,tan,grey, and silver" is larger than 46 multiplied by "light blue,medium blue,dark blue,tan,grey, and silver".

Even if the WW2 "Germans" only came in 3 different colours, a whole half of what you claim for your nappies, they would still outnumber the Nappie French (or "french" as you call them), 369 versus your 276.

C'est la vie

as much as id like to have germans in more than 1 color,im afraid there isnt many sets that come in 2 different colors.the reprints from esci to italeri come to mind with 2,but thats about it.it wasnt known as a colorful uniform period i guess.
so vive la france!

Mange tout, Rodney!