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Re: Some 2015 stats

andy yeomans
Andy O'Langridge



I'm afraid you will never ever convince me that more power gives even the same reliability. Looking at Proto I haven't done the sums but I suspect that they have exhibited a higher failure rate than Cup? They also will need more frequent rebuilds. Nice if you can afford it?



My understanding of the Honda VTEC engines is that they are standard - designed to give circa 240 Bhp for (probably) 200k miles in an S2000.

My Vauxhall engine is standard, apart from the dry sump and carbs rather than injection. As I have said before, my experience is that they dont need rebuilds (touch wood) from one season to the next. But I do accept that mine is a 185 (Ish) bhp engine and would need more frequent tlc if it was built to give 240 bhp. Its a cheap engine to buy and run with lots of parts, inc tuning parts for those that desire (and complete engines) available. Ditto for Zetec and Toyota 3S-GE


Andy the Honda engine is physically large, expensive to install (with the dry sump and all ancillaries)and too powerful if Proto is restricted to say 190/200bhp. You also get hot kneecaps as the exhaust comes out of the RHS of the engine.

The Vauxhall engine is old and heavy but OK for providing cheap power, I would not want to base a growing race series on it though?

Re: Some 2015 stats

Andy O'Langridge


The Vauxhall engine is old and heavy but OK for providing cheap power, I would not want to base a growing race series on it though?


Fair enough, but give people the choice, depending on their budget. Not sure how old the XE design is compared to the K Series, but the latter is hardly a spring chicken?

There is already a successful one engine class. Nothing wrong with having a class that allows some different solutions, even more modern solutions, and eventually a consensus on what's "best" will probably emerge.

However, I do think it's pointless to define engine rules by power output as that requires that everyone is tested on the same dyno at the same time. Regs need to be developed that are easy to physically police/ inspect and yet give similar performance. As an example I have pointed out that the Monoposto 2000 Classic have been developed to achieve this aim; they give freedom of choice and yet have power of about 185-195 bhp, the limit for Proto that some are discussing, so it is possible.

Re: Some 2015 stats

Andy Yeomans
Andy O'Langridge


The Vauxhall engine is old and heavy but OK for providing cheap power, I would not want to base a growing race series on it though?


Fair enough, but give people the choice, depending on their budget. Not sure how old the XE design is compared to the K Series, but the latter is hardly a spring chicken?

There is already a successful one engine class. Nothing wrong with having a class that allows some different solutions, even more modern solutions, and eventually a consensus on what's "best" will probably emerge.

However, I do think it's pointless to define engine rules by power output as that requires that everyone is tested on the same dyno at the same time. Regs need to be developed that are easy to physically police/ inspect and yet give similar performance. As an example I have pointed out that the Monoposto 2000 Classic have been developed to achieve this aim; they give freedom of choice and yet have power of about 185-195 bhp, the limit for Proto that some are discussing, so it is possible.


Andy I think we are both thinking the same here:-

One of the items I wanted to bring up in AOB is to maybe start looking for a new engine to replace the K, I actually have mooted this in previous driver meetings but I think due to the "survival course" put onto us by not only the banking sector but also our competition it rightly hasn't been discussed seriously yet.

There are cheap ways of restricting power across several makes of engine.

Re: Some 2015 stats

Now perhaps folk who think I should stay with clubmans can see why my car is for sale we have the blind leading the blind clubmans is losing it's roots and becoming a rich man's formula catering for the rich the fun has gone the paddock has lost it's sparkle, not surprising really when drivers are being run by proffesional teams in what is supposed to be an amateurs championship it is always the same with all clubs when people start paying money to have experts assist them the fun is gone I went to Thruxton to watch the MGOC racing the day after Oulton ,the racing was closer the atmosphere in the paddock greater and not an artic to be seen and by the way and perhaps the most important point of this post ,there were a mixture of different cars racing in different classes in the same race ........Why?because they all know to maintain a good grid they need each other so for the lords sake clubmans take a leaf out of their book and stop the backstabbing and squabbling.

Re: Some 2015 stats

Martin, don't confuse open discussion and democracy with backstabbing and squabbling. This is healthy and I doubt you'll find a better bunch of racers anywhere.

Professional teams, artics...? Really? Clubmans is amateurs and owner drivers as far as I can see. Look at our champion - Alex has engineered his own car and driven it with extreme skill.

Re: Some 2015 stats

Martin; not sure what you are talking about? With all Clubmans racers and the people around i have a very good relation. Always friendly and welcoming in the paddock, money or no money, "works" teams have always been there from year 1

Yes we do not all agree on wich class is best for eachother and Clubmans but that has nothing to do with the fact that we all love Clubmans!


Re: Some 2015 stats

Quite right Onno - well said.
Exactly why so many of us have been in Clubmans for decades.

Re: Some 2015 stats

Pete

If you have not seen arctics in the paddock with people being paid to run drivers ie professionalls(paid for services provided) you must be more blinkered than I thought you were and as for Alex great guy great engineer great driver but if that great he should be looking to do better for himself than club racing he should be seeking to push his talent much further and I am sure he has the ability to do so. Let's not forget I watch both races at Oulton it was like watching paint dry just cars going by quickly often with in excess of a hundred metres between them at least apart from the front few sorry mate but things have to change it has become boring I can and I will speak my mind as others should

Re: Some 2015 stats

Onno

With respect mate if it is as great as you say you would have made the effort to be at more meetings, before you answer I know you have had other commitments and understand the cost of coming over but life is about choices and clearly your other racing must have been better fun !! I agree with what you have said about clubmans but in the past it was better we need to get back to that I am not the only one that feels that things are not the same but perhaps I am the only one who is prepared to speak up it needs change we are in a changing world and it is my fear that some in clubmans lack change capability if certain people want one class fine let's have one class but with an engine to suit all maybe ford maybe Suzuki people have to many passions about what they favour so let's all change and have a fresh start but it does need to be affordable and reliable no good having 200 horses sat in the garage at most meetings !!