Following the successful introduction of Hankook tyres this year it was agreed at the recent Committee meeting that we will strengthen our partnership with Hankook in 2016 when only Hankook slicks will be eligible for Cup (Sports 1600) and Proto. The old Dunlop wet will continue to be eligible in 2016. The Hankook tyres will be eligible on Classic cars in our championship but we will obviously also permit whatever tyres are agreed for the HSCC series.
So proto is no longer free choice as it as at the moment? And dunlops not eligible? Shouldn't this of gone to a members vote? Not just the standing committee?
Hmm think this isn't what we agreed on Proto class. First you give us free choice and now we got to use Hankooks? Just got me some 2hnd F4 slicks and wets, the first wet's in 10 gears; no way i'm not going to use them.
Please explane this as i think you just made some Proto drivers angry for nothing.
Gentlemen, just as another club member can I ask you to be more open minded.
We elect our committee and it’s absolutely impossible for them to make decisions that everybody will agree with.
There are some decisions that I have disagreed with in the past but I have to take a balanced view, I love the series, love the cars and enjoy the Paddock, so on balance I’m in for it.
Please remember it’s easy to criticise in this modern world but it’s a lot harder to come up with workable plans?
What Pete has put up makes sense in so many ways. If we can get the volume of the tyres ordered from Hankook up then we stand a better chance of keeping the very advantageous price that we buy them at.
Also it makes a flat playing field, the tyres are proven to work on all cars, plus if you have a puncture it’s highly likely that another competitor has a spare tyre he can lend you? (Perhaps the club should buy a set(s) of tyres and make available to us at race weekends?).
So let’s just accept and get on and race? The alternative is to always argue which will erode all the good work done in Clubman’s over the last two difficult years?
You OK Andy?
I too would prefer to continue with what I have and then move to Hanrook when I need my Dunlops replacing.
Brian, I think so, when I last looked.
I've got enough Dunlops to last me well into next season (or probably about 2020 at the current rate of usage).
I'm happy to discuss the possibility of Proto moving to being a Hankook only formula for 2017, but not happy to have it enforced for 2016
S-Roof sell them to Classic Clubman's and buy a set of Hankooks at half the price (slight salesman's exaggeration there).
The way i see it is just about every proto driver is not happy with the desision. Im a bit unhappy that the standing committee can make that kind of choice with no proto driver on the committee. How hard is it to send a email and ask a opinion. Proto is doing quite well at the moment and attracting new people. Other then the power debate (another time) why not leave it alone!!
I am unhappy about the committees decision to run the Haggis meeting at Silverstone rather than Castle Combe I feel that decisions as important as this the same as the tyres should be discussed with all drivers and feedback should be taken to get a balanced view of what the majority of drivers would like before implementing change.
I‘m really struggling to understand where we are going here, if my memory serves me correctly, we discussed this at least at one drivers meeting. My recollection was that we were under pressure as Dunlop had “pulled the rug” on us, for Cup we allowed Dunlop to co-exist with Hankook so that we could evaluate it for a year before making a final decision. For Proto I recall that there was a more open agenda with Michelin and Hoosier mentioned, but as far as I recall there was not a commitment to leave the choice open for ever and I’m sure that most attendees expected a Pan Proto/Cup decision.
We have come from (Cup) a series that has always tried to use one make of tyres, one make of engines but with wide open technical regulations.
So here we are and I don’t understand the resistance to appointing a committee and not agreeing with what decisions they make, to think that there is time to contact every individual driver to sound them out on issues is not practical.
My personal opinion is that there really is not a big problem, we are all at liberty to enter a championship with rules determined by the club, we surely can’t expect us to individually set the rules? From what I can see there is resistance as certain drivers have built up a stock of tyres.
The question surely is how long do we give drivers to use up an existing stock of Dunlop’s? I would have thought that giving notice in July 2015 is time enough for us to have the right tyres on by March 2016?
I too hold an opinion on the power allowed in Proto which is a separate issue, however it must be noted that proto numbers this year (based on qualifying) are Donington 5x, Croft 3x and Silverstone 3x. The mathematics hardly indicate a growing number?
I can’t believe that there is not a solution to this, however we surely must adopt a principle where we appoint a committee and give them a chance to run the series, discussions are normally at the driver meeting and AGM?
Remember it's far too easy to criticise, it's much harder to propose and manage a solution?
Have you banged your head or something Andy ?
I do however agree with your comment that it is easy to criticise , the committee undoubtedly work very hard and will never please all , I was at the meeting when tyres were discussed at great length I do not have any recollection of Proto being informed that they would have to use Hancooks in 2016 it was my understanding that they were free to use whatever they wanted . I would suggest that the minutes of the meeting are checked to enable this matter to be cleared up, as you are well aware racing is very expensive and if people have a stock of tyres they should be free to use them up to save additional cost .
" .... discussions are normally at the driver meeting and AGM? ".....
That's right Andy and it is the font of decisions reached for Reg changes and hence the annoyance expressed by some here.
While compromises have to be made so often, views of participants should at least be garnered even if ignored for good reason or other.
I don't recall any debate being invited about whether the tyre good for Cup is appropriate for cars with more power? I am not suggesting one way or another, but ...
I may be wrong but believe that under MSA GR technical changes cannot be made on less than 12 months notice except for reasons of safety or other force majeure. Clearly the situation a year ago fell into that category (fm) and we have the Hankook tyre, sensibly proved and priced and a good replacement - for Cup.
We have never formally tested the Hankook on a Proto car I believe. It may well be that it is absolutely fine, no reason it should not be. But equally it may be that the drivers would like to try an alternative.
As difficult and indeed thankless as the task of management is and always will be, it occurs to me that IF a fixed tyre option is to be introduced to Proto then those drivers should have input to it and in any event it cannot be forced (if that is desirable anyway) on them until 2017. If those drivers have acquired (free spec) tyres on the basis of Rules Stability then they should neither be castigated nor ignored.. After all we continually make the special case for Classic Classes, as of course it is correct to do.
Martin thanks for your compliment, I do find it at times helpful to bang my head up against a wall
My recollection of the last meeting when we discussed tyres was that:-
1) Hankook was proposed as an alternative to Dunlop (which was or was not going to become unavailable, depending on who you listened to) for both Proto and Cup.
2) In addition Proto was allowed to experiment with say Michelin and I think Hoosier was mentioned for 2015.
3) I was under the distinct impression that we were working towards a common tyre for 2016. That's what I thought I voted for.
Repeating myself (it happens with head injuries) if we fragment our tyre purchases then we will not get such a good deal (Martin note cheaper racing) we have come through hard times in the last 24 months and the last thing we need is this?
The same tyres are used in European F3 series so it's unlikely that it won't work on a Proto?
If you all still feel strongly about it why don't we sit down and resolve it at Brands?
Let's stop this stupid discussion guys. The following was voted last year and discribed by Pete on the forum:
For absolute clarity;
Sports 1600 in 2015; Hankook or the old Dunlop. Target is Hankook as control tyre in 2016.
Proto; Free as in 2014, Hankook encouraged with a view to use as a control tyre in 2016
Classic; As current regs, plus Hankook.
Let's just vote this on the drivers meeting/AGM.
I can get 7 sets 2nd hand F4 tyres for the price of 1 new set Hankooks, please no further discussion on what's cheaper.
The cup class is not running the F3 tyres! However that would be a solution for the Proto class if Hankooks would be the control tyre.
Onno, I am not going to bother in replying to your comments.
My advice to the Proto people is to come up with solutions not problems, and remain positive?
OK chaps, I have the solution. Sack the your Committee and drop Proto because it's not consistently supported.
Thank goodness that I finish my tenure at the next AGM.
2015 was supposed to be a great year for the club 50 years of clubmans and all that the way things are going I really do fear that it is not going to make 51 years , sad I must say. We need numbers on the grid to keep the cost of entries down , the savings there far out weigh savings that can be gained by bulk purchase of tyres ie Hancooks . As you are all well aware I am not a Proto driver and I really don't care what tyres they race on as long as they are safe,why not let the Proto drivers choose their tyres my fear is that by unnecessary enforcing rules they will be driven away and will go to race elsewhere ,yes I know it would be great to have a sports1600 only race championship with one class racing but guys we just don't have the numbers for that yet so let's just survive and live and let live.
Here we go again; please look at the wider picture..!!
The solution is to allow Proto to use Dunlops to the end of 2016.
I am amused by the suggestion that we abandon Proto; two years ago ,other than myself, every single person at the meeting voted for Proto. Yes, power needs to be capped so restrict it to the K series engine!
Being on the committee is, in the main, a thankless task so thank you for all the work you do. Please, however, consider the feeling of all or at least make some soundings off the few who will be affected.
Spare a thought for the backmarker, he helps make up the numbers.
I have been rather stunned at the level of invective and emotion which has sprung from the original posting I made on behalf of your committee. We were simply trying to be helpful in reminding you 9 months before the start of next season that as the Hankook tyre has proved to be (more than) a replacement for the old Dunlop then we will be invoking the agreement we made at last year's drivers meeting. Onno has helpfully already posted the relevant extract from the output of the meeting.