Disclaimer: Sorry to bug, but my mentor is in Florida

Ok, dumb question coming up. I had an order for a 3 unit building (weird already). Then I get there and it is definitely 3 units, the comparables are in FMLS as 3 units but they look like 4 from the outside (4 balconies). Lender calls me telling me that the comparables are 4 units bc they look like it to him. What do I tell this guy? By the way redlink has them as 3 units as well.

Has one unit been converted from 2 units to 1 larger unit? How about interior photos, your sketch, and an explanation of why it looks like two not one.

MEP

Interior photos have been taken and show it to be 3 units. The problem is with the comparables, redlink says 3 units, but looks like a 4 unit from the outside. I can't get much more data on the comparables, but the lender insists that its 4 units from the outside photos.

Nevermind, delete this post. I finally got ahold of my mentor trying to take a vacation, its a 3 unit, kind of a conversion thing goin on. Thanks MEP though.

Call the agents who listed/sold the units, maybe they have an explanation. Redlink says 3, FMLS says 3, Lender may need an explanation, but I have never been able to cite them as a data source. Your exterior inspection should have raised similar concerns to theirs, these things are best handled up front.

Did you not inspect the comparables?

No, I didnt go inside of the other comparables, but its solved now

welcome back though Mr. Lingerfelt

Tell the lender to send you your check and if they want to waste their time, drive out and have a look for themselves.

Next time knock on the door, and ask.

Yeah, on all three doors? I think not. I just went with what the data says. You'd have to be crazy to go knockin on all 3 comps' doors with 3 units per comp. I've had it solved for almost 3 days now, let it go, lol.

Yeah, your right. It's just a matter of being accurate on your data. Guessing is good enough I suppose. Thats the reason I don't trust Redlink.
Not laughing.

Here, let me give the long version to you. When you find out that the subject is a 3 unit from your appraiser, but it looks like a 4 unit from the pictures, you can almost assume, without knocking on all the doors, that the data is right on the rest. Now, do you knock on someone's door with a fenced in yard to see if they have a deck or not? I would rather do one appraisal for $350, instead of 4.

Whatever it takes to establish a credible, comprehensive report.

And I did what it took. I would love to see you walk into a tenants home and ask "May I ask how your home is structured?", lol. Please, not worth it when you have data on it. If Redlink and MLS says its 3 units, I'm goin with 3 units.

Otherwise, whats the point of even using secondary data

I'm just saying that I would prefer to get a visual myself. It's whatever your comfortable swearing too, if God forbid it were to go to court.

You are not expected to look INSIDE of comparables as long as you are using reliable data.

That's a moot point because you can't look inside.

Why do you say it's a moot point, that you can't look inside?

David, you go inside your comparable sales????

LOL, I hear you Katrina

I will do whatever it takes to establish a credible report. I have not had to do this but about 4 times. Before we had the data provided for us on the computer I had to do things differently. Six months ago in Bartow Co. in Shaw Woods, I knocked on a door. The lady was very receptive, but then I am damn good lookin, with a personality to match. Got to use the comp. Your so called reliable data sources had no finish listed in the basement, basement was 75% finished.So to answer your question, yeah, I'll knock on a door. Bet you had rather take an ass beating than go to a courthouse. Please don't be afraid of putting forth extra effort. After all, they do call it work for a reason.

"Please don't be afraid of putting forth extra effort. After all, they do call it work for a reason."

Amen, DavidV!

One of the reasons that this lender decided that he knew more than the appraiser is because we, as a profession, are getting a reputation for doing very poor research and producing very unreliable results! Devil's Advocate, you needed to be able to say that you were as certain as you could possibly be that that was a 3 unit building, despite it's looks! If you had not done that little bit of extra work before your lender made that call, you needed to do it when he did to prove whether he was right or wrong. I know that 40% of 50% of $350 or $450 or $550* is not much money, but there will be NONE if AVM's continue to be able to do as good a job as the average appraiser. Please go the extra mile, or step, or whatever it takes!

(*40% is the avg profit after expenses for appraisers,
50% is the avg split for contractor appraisers,
$350 is what we WISH we could charge for appraisals,
$550 is the minimum that should be charged for a duplex, triplex, or quad,
$450 is what we WISH we could actually charge for a 2-4 family!)

Jamie,

We are expected to do what the average person in our position would do and that is NOT knock on the door of all of our comparables. On the form it says "did inspect comparables from the exterior of comparables from the street". If 3 out of 3 data sources report the comparable to be a 3 unit but it looks like a 4 from the exterior, and I go into the subject that looks like a 4 unit from the exterior but is a 3 unit once I go inside, nobody would say I was wrong to assume that the comparables on the same street less than .3miles away were built the same.

I charge $450 for a 2-4 family. I wish I could charge what my mentor used to charge when we were in Ohio, but they are much cheaper here. Which is odd to me

Thank you Jamie. You sound like a true appraiser.

So david, you went in the comparable, and saw that the basement was finish, but it didnt state that on the listing card?

are we to assume that you were at least smart enough to as if it was finished before or after the sale?

For the most part, i dont care what a comp looks like inside now. i want to know what it looked like at the time of sale.

Good point future

The finish in the basement was the reason the grantee, (thats the buyer), purchased the dwelling. My subject had alot of finish, and the listing sheet had the usual canned comments, (similar to alot of appraisal), so I could not ascertain quality, or percentage. In fact it had a real nice bathroom, rec room,mini kit. which was not itemized on the listing sheet. These details actually do make a difference. It's not my normal course of daily business to inspect the interior of comps. My point is, every now and then you need to give a little more, but then we don't work for mortgage companies, or management firms, so I understand. In this business, you really do get what you pay for.

Devil's Advocate,
You're right. If you have 3 sources that all verify each other, and your exterior inspection seemed to verify the same,that's pretty well proof. You probably have to actually send that data to the Lender to prove that you knew what you were doing. You did your homework. There's a house in Crabapple that LOOKS like an old castle buried up to it's top floor, but it's not. The lenders visual analysis of a photo was wrong, not you.

But, my point was, in our current market, it may not be enough to do what the "average" appraiser would do.
You may have to call an agent, or knock on a few doors, or more! I know that USPAP states something like that we should be able to do what our "peers" are doing, but our peers today are AVM's, and if we don't do a better job than that, we won't have a job soon. We've got raise the standards, if we want to keep this profession.

I've read your posts in several threads, and you are very knowledgeable about this business. If you were doing administrative work at 14 and you're registered or licensed now, you've been doing this longer than most appraisers. I know that the loan officers and mortgage brokers who are our clients say they want it faster and cheaper, but what they really want is to not have to bother with Appraisers. We're too much trouble, and even at $250, we're too expensive. That loan officer was just trying to discredit you. Think about it, and don't help them.

Thanks, Davidv

I try to be a professional! What we do is as important to a person's financial health as a Doctor is to a person's physical health. Or at least as important as an X-Ray Tech! A sloppy job can kill!

Jamie

I agree David, and sometimes I will knock on a door once in a while, but I figured I could trust the data on this instance. The only time I had to knock on a comparable's door was bc it was only in County Records and they said it was 2,500 square feet and just looking at it from the street, I knew better. So I asked the lady if it would be an inconvenience to her for me to measure the outside of her home. Did it, and got 1500. Maybe someone at county hit the wrong button or something.

$500 minimum for 2-4, SFR $350 w/Rent schedule and operating income, another $100

When I have had questions about the interior finish or anything else about a comparable sale, I always call or email the listing agent for the transaction. I have been pleasantly surprised at the rate of return of these communications. Usually there is some condition of sale or something about the finish of the house that is throwing the numbers off. I would much rather talk to the listing agent than knock on the door of comparable sale and start asking questions out of the blue, but obviously that is personal preference.

I've found that the homeowner typically knows more than the agent, because they haven't been involved with as many transactions in the past year. There are certain agents that I will call for info. Knocking on a door is not something I do in the normal course of business, but when I have exhausted all my other options, I'm just saying that I will do it without hesitation. But then I don't try to turn in 3 a day either. I'll leave that to the technologically superior folks coming out of school. May I reitterate, you do get what you pay for. You do it your way, and I'll do it mine. Ain't no need fer no fuss. Be cool

No fuss here, Davidv

When I get to the point of producing three reports a day I will take out a full-page ad in the AJC announcing the latest miracle!

I hear ya. Kinda like the little pill that makes something happen for 4 hours. I ain't calling my doctor, I'm callin my buddies. I'm lucky to do 2 appraisals a week. I don't really want to do more than that.